Architect Archive

"How is even 10k not a loss... Go to any vendor and the bazaar and look at the price for resouces... 3 - 5 cpu if not more. A Small house takes 3388 units of verious resouces to make. Now use the going market price as a multiplier. Do the math, any thing under 10k is a loss "

I think you guys are looking at the word loss in two seperate ways.

10k is not a loss if you are speaking about what you sell for, versus what it cost you to makethe item. Like Dayln said, he would have to sell for less than 1cpu to have a loss(that will go up btw if power consumption goes up).

Now.. you are looking at loss, as in a loss to potential profit, on a single sale of a house/harvestor. Now that loss to potential profit could be argued that...

even though I sell a house for 7k, but the resources sell for 10k, I am making money in the end through marketing, setting up a customer base, and when resource prices drop, I have a base of buyers for houses which did not drop...

I will be gainging a higher potential profit than you.

Now, for the sake of argument and simplicity, remove that varriable from the equation(because it could be argued either way).

Basically, you are selling at a loss to potential profit(see above), and you are not selling at a loss(loss as cost to produce vs. sale price)

Now, the potential profit is hard to nail down. I imagine the people that do, will be very well off in terms of profets.

Those that wont sell for less than bazaar resource prices, and sell resources, seems the market is good on this now(resources sell easier than finished architect products.. almost everyone needs resources), but starting to see signs of price drops, and selling getting more dificult(getting sales pitches in tells, seeing prices drop further).

Those that will sell for less than bazaar resource prices.. while they may be making less than the material sale price now, they may be setting themselves up later.The supplier base thins out(fewer architects selling, over abundance of miners, resources prices dropping), and therefore makes the market less competitive(cant find a harvestor because there are allot less of them, guess you gotta pay what the remaining architects demand). Basically, if resource prices drop, and architect numbers drop, and said player has set up a loyal customer base, that particular non resource selling, structure building person, has just set themself up for some nice future profits.

Who knows how it is going to pan out, especially with the monkey wrench of the possible power usage in harvestor increase.

I know I am not dropping the profession, I just am not building unless I get a price that is above average now. I am happy to sit on my harvestors and tinker with merchant and weaponsmithing and wait and see what happens.

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GrandMufTartkin wrote:

I think you guys are looking at the word loss in two seperate ways.

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OK GMT, I'll admit that I may be looking at Loss and profit in a different way then Dayln. But then what should be used as a baseline for this type of discussion. It's kind of hard to use how much a single person pays for harvesting there own resources. Seeing as there is a mulitiude of possibilities. How does one figure in if a guildmate or friend is paying for it. What about lots, some people through there friends/guildy have access to more lots then thoes that may be newer to the server (or game) or just can't find a good group of people. A baseline should be established that can take these things into account. For one thing, it would keep long drawn out, and repeted discussions about this topic to a min, and could provide usable feedback to the deves as to how Architects fair in the market place in comparison to other crafting professions.

And as to prices there droping, I don't see it on Lowca (which btw is another major veriable in this discussion that there is little to accout for) I have tried to make arangements with some of these resouces vendors, and they aren't budging on prices. Even on the promise of consistant weekly sales. Sorry that sort of attitueds are not consistant with a crumbling market. Granted, they could be just dumb, but hay, I try to think the best of people. Untill they prove otherwise of course.

Lets come up with a baseline before we continue on this Profit/loss/fairness discussion, otherwise we'll just end up going in circles for months while other issues go untouched.

Ok Ill back off, you guys set what you want as the baseline price under the new circumstances and I wont argue this end of it. As long as people dont start misrepresenting the lower cost dealers again.

See I can be coperative

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Teares wrote:

I get the following

Small house 9k on vendor 7k shouting in town

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My question is why sell cheaper when you are shouting than on your vendor... Defeats your whole reason for having a vendor...

As a Master Architect, I never yell in town/spatial, people come to me from repeat business/word of mouth... But when people see me at a Bazaar or Starport and ask me what a small house costs, I'll say "15k if you want me to make one now, but my vendor has some on at 12k..." When they run to my vendor and buy the small house at a 3k savings, they always end up buying 10 pieces of furniture from my vendor and spend more than 5k on the "extras"... You'd be surprised how many people will pay 12k for the small house and then buy a Master Level Loveseat for 10k when they are looking through your inventory...

Dayln,

Your cost is < 1cpu for all of the material you mine yourself. But I believe (correct me if im wrong) you use materials that are gathered using aprox 30 lots?

For you to get that material at a cost of < 1cpu, the owners of the other 20 lots have to just give you free use of one of the games only limited resources (Lot allowance). Had they chosen to utilise the lots themselves they could have been selling the resulting materials and netting 2-3cpu for them. In a way they are giving up a "Profit" of 2cpu so that you can have it.

Nothing wrong with friends helping one another... but we can't realy discuss our profits and costs unless we take "Freebies" out of the equation.

If you had to go out and buy the resources that your friends lots produce, what would your margin be?

I happen to think you would still be making money... but it wouldnt be anything likethehuge percentages that you put in your posts, and I think that's what trigers alot of the dissagreements.

I dont have the same number of lots to play with (though I still have more than 10). I buy alot of resources on the open market. I guestimate (that is I cant be bothered to track it ) that my material costs average around 2 cpu. I still make a profit above and beyond this on everything i sell.

I supliment my production capacity by making trips to other architects stores. I buy out anything I think my storecould use more inventory on, assuming itis for sale 10-20% lower than my prices. Often I find items that are 30-40% lower. Last night I spent aprox 500,000 creds on my way back to my workshop, and filled my inventory plus my pack (110 items). I expect to make fair to excellent profit on every single item.

Bear in mind also that you appear to be in a market where the raw resources have dropped in price significantly. Whilemine have dropped a little I would say the market average is still 2.5 - 3 cpu. Only total junk sells lower (luckily we can sometimes use it.. lol). Alot of folks here see the 3 cpu as the norm, andmake their judgements based on that.

SOE have the same problem that every MMORPG company has. How do you balance the game between Casual and Power players.... between solo players and PA supported ones?

Considering how tricky that is, I don't think they have done too badly.

www.ratwhackers.com

I have a whole pricing schedule set there. Although it might be a little outdated with new changes. I'll need to look into changing some things.

"The only thing I am arguing about GMT is the "selling for a loss" statement and what you mean by it. Explain to me how I am selling at a loss while my bank account is growing by leaps and bounds? I know the answer, I sell a whole lot of structures based on the price of my extracting resources and totally ignore what price people buy and sell resources for. ( however I do keep a close eye on what people sell structures for )"

To anser your question. I think I may have not explained myself well.

I don't think I said that you where selling at a loss, or at lease I didn't mean to say that. What I said was that you might be selling at a loss of potential profit.. and that is a might, depending on your marketing scheme and the state of resources sales on your serever.

To clarify, you are not selling at a loss in the direct sense of the word, which is you are selling for more than what it cost you to make. On the other hand, if you are selling for less than what those resourse sell at, you are selling at a potential profit loss(doesnt sound like it though, because what you said about your prices and resource prices.. so thats just an example)

Say that I have a I dunno.. a pile of wood. That pile of wood cost me..

Chain saw $300

Gas to cut the wood $5

Taxes paid on the land this year where I am cutting the wood $395

Total $700 to maintain the land, buy and run the tool to cut the wood.

Now, say that I could sell this wood to a furniture store, that agreed to pay me $1000

Also, I had a local retail store that bought furniture that I made from my wood, they agreed to pay me $900 for whatever furniture could be made with that same pile of wood.

With this example Dayln, you lost a potential profit of $100. That meaning istead of making $1000, you made $900. You did not loose the $100, it did not come out of your pocket, but you lost the opportunity to have that $100 put into your pocket.

Know what I mean?

Anyway, I am sureyou are not selling at a loss, and from what you said, are not selling for a loss of potential profit either(think you said you sell structures for more than what the materials themselves sell for).

Hope that clears up what I meant.

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Dayln wrote:

Ok Ill back off, you guys set what you want as the baseline price under the new circumstances and I wont argue this end of it.

See I can be coperative

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LoL Dayln, guess we both saw how the conversation was deteriating rather quickly at pretty much the same time :-)

I charge the following and have no problems selling anything.

• Small Houses - 15k


• Medium Houses - 75/80k (depending)


• Large Houses - 175k


• PAs - 400k

I normally receive from 575k to 625k for a fully furnished large house with aquarium, fireplace, and specific room sets. The entire house setup takes 2 to 3 days but it's a lot of fun.

• I sell factories for 45k


• I sell medium harvesters (25k mineral / 45k chem)

I refuse to sell large harvesters, power generators (of any type) and if business is slow, I stock pile resources for the bigger jobs. I never run out of resources, never have to purchase from others, never feel left on the shallow end. On everything I do, I always receive half up front and half when I'm finished.

My gal and I do "extreme" house interior decorating and everything is done to absolute perfection or we aren't happy. We do a lot of extras though which will be shown on my site later on. (that is if SoE can get their act together)

Wow, I never knew my prices were so off. With everything sold out on my vendor and a stock pile of resources I think its time to adjust my prices to get them in line with everyone else. The time spent grinding in my house and not seeing the galaxies is worth more then what I'm charging. If people don't want to pay the price then good for me I don't have to sit in my house and replace that product on the vendor and I get to spend more time traveling and seeing new and exciting things.

=)

Teares Naltic

Architect : Master Artisan

Radiant

Ok forgot to say that I'm on the Bria server (my bad)

first of all, thnx to everybody so far on giving a little newbee some guideway here on how to try and make it in this cruels artifical world.

but by all mean's....keep the discusion going. love the imput

*taking notes*

Prices vary,

I sell Large houses for 120k

Heavyextractors for 95k

But it depends on the going rate on my server, I try to stay 10-20% less than the going rate.

I don't try to sell for less than my competitors, I try to sell for more...

This may sound bizzarre to the rest of you, but anytime I lower my prices, I end up with more sales than my harvestors keep up with. When this happens I have to BUY the materials.

While I may still make "some" profit when I have to do this, it's far less than using my own materials nets me. I see absolutely no reason to charge less than 3 cred a unit, since I can sell my materials for that. So my selling price is always 3 cred a unit to build it, unless the average price on the item is more, and then I sell for the average price.

My method is very simple, if you want it, I intend to make a profit to make it for you... If not, I won't bother.

Vorgus on Bria