Architect Archive
Thread: Under-priced deeds
Sadlateen wrote:
I sell houses and and furniture at 3cpu (and no in not paying others to by them my cost is only 1.5cpu so im making a 1.5 cpu profit) Im a master artasin archatect merchant this is what I do and I feal very good about the profit I make. but anybody is able to come clear out my 4 vendors any time thay want to resell. Ill be happy to refill them every morning. and Im sorry 10cpu for a house? 34K for a small house? I just dont see it. not now after the devs removed any sort of need to but resorces and parts from other players.
The idea of basing the prices on the "value" of the resorses (not the cost) and increasing your profit based on that "value" is a dream that will never work in a MMO where anybody can harvest there own resorces at cost
Now if thay ever add back Miningwhere resorces harvesting took up real skill points and certs for operation are needed and anybody that wanted to make and sell there items on there own vendor HAD to buy resorces from other people then this debate would have some meaning. But I dont see it changing any time soon. This is what the masses wanted! (not me I was one of the few that fought to keep a real working economy in during beta) the mindless masses do not want a working economy thay want to have there alts make items and money easly and with no real work or interaction with other players. thay do not want to depend on other people to supply them with resorces or mass produce there items for them. thay do not want to sell "wholesale" to merchants for resale. The fact is people want to be able to go from harvesting resorces to selling on vendors all by themself and as long as thay can there will be no standerdisation of prices based around a "value" of a resorces because the "value" will be diff between the people that buy there resorces and harvest it themself.
And to the people charging as if there buying resorces but are really harvesting there own for 1/5 the cost and taking in that much more profit. dont look down on me for charging a fare and honest price. because when I say I charge 2x cost I really mean "cost" and not some rounded up perceived "value" based on the price of resorces you didnt even pay for in the first place.
Ok I want to comment on the parts I highlighted in yellow.. First off.. Then how do you explain that most of you "monoplolies are the ones pricing in the manner of taking in market value of resources not true costs> ? I would bet you that almost all of the "monopolies" on any server are people charging on the higherprice scales of each server?
and .. you saying you are charging a Fair and Honest price? so you are saying I am not.. well.. I find that insulting that you judge me in that manner.. "percieved value" give me a break.. .. I price on the value my products bring my customers.. not me.. If I was pricing my stuff at my own personal value then you are right I would be at that 2 or 3 cpu.. because I can make my own stuff... But that is where your modle is mistaken.. You arent buying your own products..
I have not judged anyone on their prices.. Sell for 15 cpu if someone buys great for you.. sell for 1 cpu.. if you are happy great for you.. dont come on here and insult me or the others that price the way they want too...
Just an interesting side note to add here : I ran a little experiment selling exactly the same harvesters at two different prices on my vendor. Customers bought the expensive version in preference to the cheaper ones. (!!?) They had exactly the same spec and name etc (they came off the same factory run.)
I did it to test a real-life theory; theconsumer mentalityof people blindly believing a more expensive product is a better one.I'm not exactly selling brand-name goods here either.
I sell houses and and furniture at 3cpu (and no in not paying others to by them my cost is only 1.5cpu so im making a 1.5 cpu profit) Im a master artasin archatect merchant this is what I do and I feal very good about the profit I make. but anybody is able to come clear out my 4 vendors any time thay want to resell. Ill be happy to refill them every morning. and Im sorry 10cpu for a house? 34K for a small house? I just dont see it. not now after the devs removed any sort of need to but resorces and parts from other players.
The idea of basing the prices on the "value" of the resorses (not the cost) and increasing your profit based on that "value" is a dream that will never work in a MMO where anybody can harvest there own resorces at cost
Now if thay ever add back Miningwhere resorces harvesting took up real skill points and certs for operation are needed and anybody that wanted to make and sell there items on there own vendor HAD to buy resorces from other people then this debate would have some meaning. But I dont see it changing any time soon. This is what the masses wanted! (not me I was one of the few that fought to keep a real working economy in during beta) the mindless masses do not want a working economy thay want to have there alts make items and money easly and with no real work or interaction with other players. thay do not want to depend on other people to supply them with resorces or mass produce there items for them. thay do not want to sell "wholesale" to merchants for resale. The fact is people want to be able to go from harvesting resorces to selling on vendors all by themself and as long as thay can there will be no standerdisation of prices based around a "value" of a resorces because the "value" will be diff between the people that buy there resorces and harvest it themself.
And to the people charging as if there buying resorces but are really harvesting there own for 1/5 the cost and taking in that much more profit. dont look down on me for charging a fare and honest price. because when I say I charge 2x cost I really mean "cost" and not some rounded up perceived "value" based on the price of resorces you didnt even pay for in the first place.
DirtDigger wrote:
Just an interesting side note to add here : I ran a little experiment selling exactly the same harvesters at two different prices on my vendor. Customers bought the expensive version in preference to the cheaper ones. (!!?) They had exactly the same spec and name etc (they came off the same factory run.)
I did it to test a real-life theory; theconsumer mentalityof people blindly believing a more expensive product is a better one.I'm not exactly selling brand-name goods here either.
I have observed the same effect, but my theory is different from yours as to why. I think customers are trying to minimize their shopping time, and want the best possible item, so they sort by price and buy the first (most expensive) item that meets their needs. Since the price on many kinds of items is small compared to the value, and the differences small compared to the difference in results, shopping for the best price may not pay for many buyers.
The long lag to get the details on an item makes looking at very many of them impractical.
This is closely related to why high volume shops can sell for high prices. The customers go there to avoid wasting time at shops they don't know. The poor casual player gets bit from both sides, very little traffic in the shop, and those who do showmostly consist of bargain hunters that don't want to pay full price.
Casual players would really benefit from dealing with a Merchant, but it takes a good consignment sale system to make that possible so the Merchant doesn't have to have the cash to buy the item speculation on the price he might get. (Consignment sale means the Merchant doesn't pay the owner until the item is sold.)
I believe that convience is a major factor in people buying. I've had people tell me "I know that your prices are a little higher but I can count on finding what I need there".
Again - pointing out that *price* is only part of an overall business model.
Ive seen architects get mad if you sell too low, which is
something I just have never understood. Do I sell at low prices?
You better believe it. Do I make money? Sure do, enough to fund
two other characters activities and still have enough to give
money to any guildie who needs it, anytime. And i actually get
emails THANKING me for my low prices and excellent stock.
I spend easily 24-30 hours or more a week crafting and stocking.
Im proud of the selection I offer and the prices I offer. Because,
unlike many it seems, I feel BAD raising prices. Yup. Bad. Not every
person in this game has 190k for a large harvester, which ive seen many
architects selling at. or 170k for a large house.
And I'm pretty careful to track sales as well. If I find another
architect buying my things..theyre banned from the shop. Pure and simple.
Because I find that unethical and immoral, considering they wont give
the credit of other architect sales. In my eyes, it would be like Coca-Cola
buying up pepsi and reselling it under the Coke label. Just cuz pepsi was
cheaper. It doesnt happen in the real world and it doesnt happen
in my shop. You can flame me all you want for this practice of banning,
so far its only happened Twice...and all would have been forgiven if they
had acknowledged to customers that not all the products they were buying
from Architect X were not built by Arch X, but by others....they refused..
so banned they became.
I've got a great location, right outside Coronet. There arent any other
architect vendors anywhere near me. My repeat customers know I'm on every
day, they can count on it like the sunrise. I offer over 1500 items for sale
at any given moment, and my prices are fair to experienced and new players
alike. Heck, Ill stand in my shop sometimes and tip players credits to buy
things, because I know theyll come back. Its good business. And I still manage
to make anywhere from 8 to 15 million a week.
Deeds too low? Nah.
Deeds too low? hmph.
We had an instance a week or so ago where a new Master Architect (wearing the badge under his name) was spamming outside Coro Starport for his cheap wares. His prices were basically 80k for BER13 Heavies and 20k fo BER10 mediums. He claimed to have heaps of stock and hundreds of cheap pricing furniture (Tech items for 200cr for example).
He spammed the Starport for about 2 weeks and during that time I went out and had a look, and he barely had a thing on his 3 vendors. At most he was restocking 3 to 4 deeds A DAY. He suddenly stopped spamming and has since been long gone. I went back out to his vendors and they too have disappeared.
I know of several other "undercutters" who went out in a blaze of glory, and know of none who have lasted more than a month in the business at their cheap prices.
I sell my deeds for what I charge (4 to 5per which is the average for Valcyn btw), buy up excess cheap stuff when I can and resell it at a nice profit. I make a few million a week and manage to be self sufficient on resources most of the time.
I stopped worrying about undercutters and price choppers ages ago. They all either disappear back into the grind, go broke, or wake up and realise they are tipping money down the toilet. Time takes care of most things these days.
Jazzhawke wrote:
This is one that I've wondered at for a long time.
Ive seen architects get mad if you sell too low, which is
something I just have never understood.
Isn't it obvious? Undercutters are seen as a threat to peoples ability to sell the same product for a higher price and it drives down the profit marginsfor everyone. If someone sells for 50% or 25% less than the prevailing prices then its harder to maintain the higher prices.
Do I sell at low prices?
You better believe it. Do I make money? Sure do, enough to fund
two other characters activities and still have enough to give
money to any guildie who needs it, anytime. And i actually get
emails THANKING me for my low prices and excellent stock.
I spend easily 24-30 hours or more a week crafting and stocking.
Im proud of the selection I offer and the prices I offer. Because,
unlike many it seems, I feel BAD raising prices. Yup. Bad. Not every
person in this game has 190k for a large harvester, which ive seen many
architects selling at. or 170k for a large house.
And I'm pretty careful to track sales as well. If I find another
architect buying my things..theyre banned from the shop. Pure and simple.
Because I find that unethical and immoral, considering they wont give
the credit of other architect sales.
Buying from one person and reselling is not "unethical or immoral" in my honest opinion. Its simply logical business sense. Buy low, sell high. We have a merchant class in the game. If buying from one party and selling to another were wrong then that whole profession would be guilty of wrong doing.
However, if someone is using it as a tactic to attack your business, e.g. buying out all your stuff to keep your vendor empty, then that is different.
And personally, I think it is best to ask permission if you plan on reselling someones stuff, its the more polite route.
....
Now I don't even know what your prices are. So I'm not making any commentary on your prices. And frankly I personally don't care if people sell high or low in general.
However people who undercut TOO much can do damage and it isn't considerate of the rest of the architects in the profession. Defining how low exactly constitutes too low is up to debate. But I think that if someone sells for less than the market value of raw materials then they are doing the profession a diservice.
My response is in yellow.. above..
Jazzhawke wrote:
Because,
unlike many it seems, I feel BAD raising prices. Yup. Bad. Not every
person in this game has 190k for a large harvester, which ive seen many
architects selling at. or 170k for a large house.
But dont you see... It is not suppose to be easy to get these "elite" items.. It is suppose to be a challenge to work up to obtain these structures.. When people finally earn the cash to upgrade their fleet to Heavies .. or Upgrade their House to a large.. It is suppose to mean something? How much does it mean when all you have to do is run an hours worth of missions.. Some one just starting out shouldnt be able to bam start with a fleed of BER 13.. Gosh.. dont any of you remember how exciting it was to finally earn enough money to buy that small house? Now.. with the prices the way they are .. the noob does his noob missions from the green droid and he can pay for his house... ( in 10 minutes.. be able to buy a house..)
And I'm pretty careful to track sales as well. If I find another
architect buying my things..theyre banned from the shop. Pure and simple.
Because I find that unethical and immoral, considering they wont give
the credit of other architect sales. In my eyes, it would be like Coca-Cola
buying up pepsi and reselling it under the Coke label. Just cuz pepsi was
cheaper. It doesnt happen in the real world and it doesnt happen
in my shop. You can flame me all you want for this practice of banning,
so far its only happened Twice...and all would have been forgiven if they
had acknowledged to customers that not all the products they were buying
from Architect X were not built by Arch X, but by others....they refused..
so banned they became.
Here is how you fix this problem... Put your name in the title of the deed...
I've got a great location, right outside Coronet. There arent any other
architect vendors anywhere near me. My repeat customers know I'm on every
day, they can count on it like the sunrise. I offer over 1500 items for sale
at any given moment, and my prices are fair to experienced and new players
alike. Heck, Ill stand in my shop sometimes and tip players credits to buy
things, because I know theyll come back. Its good business. And I still manage
to make anywhere from 8 to 15 million a week.
Becareful.. I have not insulted anyone about low prices.. I dont agree with those prices but that is fine.. I dont pester you all day saying your stupid... Just because you dont agree with the higher prices.. dont Insult that side by labeling them as Unfair. and Un Honest....
Deeds too low? Nah.
Deeds too low? hmph.
We just happened to be typing at the same time... lol
A few comments about this and all of the other "pricing" discussions:
1. I have *never* seen a case where calling the other guy's integrity or intelligence into question resulted in any fruitful discussion.
2. I have rarely (if ever) seen someone have a true "aha" moment out of these discussions and realize that the other person had a valid point of view.
3. Making "judgements" about other folks - whether you are assessing their intelligence or their "right" to sell high or sell low - doesn't seem to be a productive use of your time. The world continues to turn.
Personally, some of the prices we charge make me sick - you know you can sell for a lot lower, and all it takes is a little forethought. Most of the time we charge based on the currently inflated resource prices (4.5cr for ore? Who are we kidding? It costs ~1.5cr to mine it on a 40% spot!), or whatever the buyer is willing to pay. Of course, greed is the root of capitol, and who am I to argue?