Architect Archive

ry cor

Since you turned to large font size, then you have lost the arguement, and I agree you have. <--the A to B to C in this is very bizarre.

If you consider referencing your posting pattern as personal, then I guess so. Calling you a troll, personal? Dalyn, you won't even go by your ingame name...what do you care what others name you. Please, don't deny that you troll.

Attack me all you want. Instead of sitting back and trying to figure out where my "snipe out of nowhere" comes from as a casual observer, you attack me. Try learning and figuring out where I'm coming from. Then again...its normal for a troll to maintain a troll campaign stance, and continue sieging boards with a reply that is (big shocker) and attack.

Are your responses to me proving me wrong? You're using textbook Dalyn spam here.

Are there any other imaginary generations of Dalynites you'd like to get involved here? I believe your "grandpa" status about as much as I believe you have a true fear of your "true identity" being revealed. Both are meaningless to you, and full of hot air....

....which is my point in the end. Posts and posts of hot air. Only trolls benefit from hot air.

ry corj4d00 - You had everything right, till part 3. At part 3, you start to make up numbers. You say that a marksmans should be making 30k an hour. And then you take that number, and say, well hey, we should be making that amount of money too! In real life, do you go up to your boss and say, hey you should be paying me more money, look at how much Bill Gates makes an hour. That's a pretty weak argument and it's also part of the communism model, which doesn't work.

This argument is especially weak, considering that players are NOT making 30k an hour. From what I hear, players who grind with destroy missions are getting about 10k an hour now days. Those are grinders, meaning non-casual gamers. Casual-gamers are making even less.

Then in part 4, you assume that you are constantly on a weekly basis moving your harvesters around and planting them on new spots. And you factor that into how much resources cost, which I don't agree on. The cost of moving harvesters is a different type of investment entirely. I'm surprised that you didn't try to factor in the cost of having to pay for your harvesters.

But in any case, part 3 is based on made up data. Also, keep in mind that you used the weakest investment in equipment, to try to tilt the scenario to your argument. Using wind generators and personal harvesters. using large harvesters and a fusion generator would completely lopside the perspective as well. Not to mention using 60% spots... that's insane. Who places their harvesters on a 60% spot? I try to get 70+ at least. Most of time I find 80% spots. Sometimes I get lucky and get 90%s ones. But 60? geeze.

Mad Hatter

ry cor

Well, once you get past base resoruce costs and overhead we get into opinions about profit margins.

j4d00 and I dont totally agree on that, I dont think you would agree with me either, but then I am not totally sure you would get any two archetects to agree 100% on that.

Profit margins is something that every crafter has to figure out for themselves.

ry cor

Mat Hatter,

1) I wish you read my entire post, if you're going to ask a question I have already answered. I'll repost it for you:

"Why I chose 30k/hour:
I used 30k/hour for a number of reasons. If you go on missions at YOUR level on other planets, and subtract the travel cost as well as the down time this value is fairly accurate. There's down time in crafting items, or going to your extractors as well, and I didn't include this in my analysis. I also didn't include possible overhead costs like maint. on shops/vendors, or time spent trying to sell your resources. If you added that time as well to the cost of the resources, and lowered the amount that a fighter could 'actually' generate in an hour, you'd find that they cancel each other out. I used the same theory for the 150k/hour for the Architects time."

2) Have you done the math with the medium and large extractors? I have. I'll show you with large if that will make you happy (and no I'm not including the initial resources required for them).

Fusion Generator statistics:

Maint Rate: 30
Spec Rate: 13KG/H

Heavy Mineral extractor:

Maint rate: 45
Spec Rate 7KG/H
Power consumption: 75

For Power:
On a 60% source that would be SR*PR=AR or 13*.6 or 7.8 units of power per minute. That's 468 units per hour. That's only enough power to support 468/75 or 6 heavy harvesters.

For Mineral:
At 60% SR*PR=AR, 7*.6=4.2 units/minute or 252 units/hour. If we have 6 of them that's 1512 units/hour.

Cost:
1 fustion generator and 7 heavy extractors is 7*Mineral extractors + fusion generator or 7*90+60=690 credits/hour.

CH/UH=CPU or 690/1512 or 0.45. You're right. I was way off. lol.

As for why I use 60%. I look for quality resources, and mostly ore. I've been recording statistics since I started playing (I have a Math degree after all), and that is the average rate. You are correct in that steel is usually in the 70%+ range, but a huge amount of what I need is ore. Ore averages around 50% for good carbonite ore, plus sometimes there is none at all, so you have to factor in travel costs. I chose to make things simple.

Ecirb

ry cor

Oops. My mistake.

"For Mineral:
At 60% SR*PR=AR, 7*.6=4.2 units/minute or 252 units/hour. If we have 6 of them that's 1512 units/hour.

Cost:
1 fustion generator and 7 heavy extractors is 7*Mineral extractors + fusion generator or 7*90+60=690 credits/hour.

CH/UH=CPU or 690/1512 or 0.45."

Should be:

1 fusion generator and 6 heavy extractors is 6*Mineral extractors + fusion generator or 6*90+60=600 credits/hour.

CH/UH=CPU or 600/1512 or 0.4 credits.

Ecirb

ry cor

So much for the Math degree. lol.

Ecrib

ry cor

And what exactly does all this prove? Nothing! Don’t get me wrong I stand behind most of things you are saying. The majority of the problems that Architect’s face is poor implementation of the profession it’s that simple. The Harvesters and structure are the same if made by a master or someone who just acquired the skill. It makes difficult to justify pricing no matter what calculator or economic model you use. People will sell for what ever price they feel like to either advance or try to build up a customer base. Let’s face it, a player run economy without some sort of checks and balances lead to the problems some are facing now. Player cities will make it worse. (That’s another thread)

ry cor

I could not disagree more, the problem is not thatsome sell for less, the problem is that some want to play an archetect thatis not competitive in businessand is garunteed to be sucuessfull. Busines is not like that, and it shouldnt be.

Checks and balanances ( I read as price fixing ) is NOT a solution and would totally stop a real player run economy. No let the problem run its course and it will correct itself.

Business will fail, people will leave the archetect profesion and condidions will imporve.

ry cor

Few things I disagree as I have done the maths myself.

First main difference is thatI didn't take into account the time cost itself.

Things I took into account :

- Cost of the personal harvester( or of redeeding for a heavy, you don't redeed a personal, it is cheaper to buy a new one)

- Resource shift (every shift it is likely there will be cash and power left in your harvester when a resource shifts,both will be lost in a personal harvester that you won't redeed, only the maintenance for the time your harvester spent sitting doing nothing will be lost for a heavy, but you still incured a cost for them).

I did the maths for both personal and heavy harvestor and found some interesting things :

1) Whatever time you spend harvesting a resource the cost per resource harvested is always cheaper with a heavy harvester than with a personal, however the difference is not enough to fund in a reasonable amount of time a heavy harvester ( you can however fund it thanks to the higher quantity of resources extracted)

To reach costs of under 1 cr/unit you need to farm a resource in a decent concentration( 70%+)for more than 2 days before it **edit**s. This is assuming than when the resource shifts you have on average 12hours of wasted power/maintenance in your harvester (only wasted maintenancefor aheavy aspower is not lost through redeeding). Comparatively you reach the under 1cr/unit cost

ry cor

Yep, let it work itself out...I have posted many times that our woes are player driven and not a flawed system like everyone tries to blame...Give it time and let the tinkers weed themselves out and it will get better..If you were too late and didnt get while the gettin was good then you may be stuck..I have enough money to pay my upkeep on houses for like 2 years if thats all i had to pay..

If you cant make it as an architech sell your resources its less work and better money if thats what your after...

ry cor

A couple of things.

First, this is from the 'firms' perspective, so if you want to get into the 'architect' business then this would only be the first step. The next step is to do an analysis of what the current Market pricing is. Then using that information, compare it to your model of what you think you should be getting, or what you can live with and then decide if it's worth it.

Second, I don't think price fixing is the answer. I like the fact that this is a player run economy. If there's and excess in supply (supply exceeds demand), then market prices will be very low. This iscalled 'market saturation'. It's a fact of life. The ones that can stick with it, will reap the rewards in the end. The ones that exit the market, will pursue something else that makes them happy. I'm happy with what I'm doing, and I just thought I'd like to share my ideas to see what other people think.

Ecirb

e theo

Dayln you spend so much time here defending your prices its a wonder you have any time to craft at all. Sure, you are within your rights to sell as cheap as you like. But it doesn't make you smart or popular. There tends to be a lot of loyalty within professions - I see this with Docs and Creature Handlers, and Bio Engineers before I gave that up forever. You prance up and down the boards that you are making a profit and running a successful business - fine.

The fact is, real successful businesses charge for as MUCH as they can. As much as the market can bear, and people pay it. You are the Wal-Mart of architects. Selling as low as possible to drive out the other guys, driving the other architects that may have higher costs or god forbid- have to buy resources - into poverty. Now I know you think you are doing the right thing, by leaving more money in your customer's pockets. But that isn't going to make or break their banks the way an architect that can't sell any merchanise feels. You have madeit abundantly clear that you don't care about the long term, other architects, or anything but getting as much profit and volume out of your policies. Good for you, its just too bad you can't see the big picture.

I think your habit of posting your diatribe on the boards several times a day is not only getting old, but most likely futile, since the people you are hurting most directly are the other architects.

e theo

Im an architect. Im past the Joe Phase (I think).

Firstly the base post is excellent in its detail and the time put into it initself !

I would disagree with two parts of the premise.

I dont equate my time to that of a marksmen. Apart from anything a marksman is a base skill not an advanced one. I wouldnt charge 30k an hour. But I do charge.

However, I would add that resource changes and mining is far more expensive than stated.

Just looking at Ore...its rarely 60% in concentration, I have suffered 3 shifts this week alone. From a nice 55% seem to NONE on NABOO at all !!!! (and interplanetary mining really costs in time) to a poxy 35% seem.

This shifting hurts...add to that the copper, steel, reactive gas, aluminium, petro chem requirements of the Installations Tree, the need for factories at the top of the trees and I think at the end of the day, the premise things are costly ! is true.

I see builders fall into 3 categories.

Tinkerer...not yet dedicated to the craft, will sell to survive, can mine own resources

Builder (this is me at the moment) not yet master, not financialy safe, has to mine for self and trade, still making top line equipment (fusion gen, factories, heavy mine equip) for self and sale, needs to look at a vendor setup (self or shared)

The practiotioner. Master. Has a network of suplliers and customers. Produces III and IV tree level items almost exclusively, even considers buying wall components....can survive on small turnover of high priced products.

Anyway, my cost basis is 3 times resourced inputed + 20% + local market. (note never minus local market) I dont undersell. I just stock items.....for a while a goose was selling small houses at 3k each and factories for 25k....so I horded my small houses (20 of them) and when he gave it up I started selling them again (10k each or 14k for the 1 lot houses) and it worked.

Cheers,

Bob, the Builder