Architect Archive
Thread: Before I leave the game, I wanted to share my ideas with you .. Enjoy
Just to jump in here...
Liza, did you realize there's a resource available that allows us to check how long a particular resource has been available, thereby allowing us the luxury of knowing, roughly, how much longer it'll be around? It's not 100% accurate, but it's a very good guide.
Im talking, of course, about SWGcraft.com. The resources listed for each planet (except for Lok, Dathomir and Dantooine) are fairly accurate and generally show up there within 12-24 hours of popping up in-game (I know Corellia is fairly accurate as I live there and keep that as up-to-date as I can...at least for the minerals/chemicals/gasses). I spend my first few minutes every single night just making sure SWGCraft is showing what is available on Corellia...if something's missing or no longer available, I make sure to correct it...
I for one like the shifting resource thing. Yes, for those of you who dabble in artisan/architect/etc it may seem like a lot of work, but I know for me at most it takes 15 mins or so on a nightly basis to hit all my harvesters (I tend to bunch them up on good spots) to empty them out, and then once a week or so it'll take me some time to move them to the next good resource after what Im mining dries up, but I can usually find something good within 30-60 mins. All things considered, a couple hours a week total to deal with my harvesters...not too bad considering I average 2-3 hours in-game each weeknight and double/triple that on Fri/Sat/Sun...
Honestly, if you think your idea of red/green zones for harvesting will be better than what we currently have, you're sadly deluded. I know on Starsider there's a guy (cant remember his name) that labels his harvesters EmGo______(insert weird name here). He has a LOT of people giving him their lots and constantly has 30-60 harvesters (if not more) on every single mineral resource (especially the highest concentrations) between Kor Vella and Alya'Starn (player city to the S of Kor Vella). If he didnt have to find high concentrations, Ican guarantee you that with your system, unless these "green" areas are monstrously huge (say 1/4 of the entire planet) that this guy would have every square inch covered with his harvesters, thereby screwing everyone else out of getting anything....and with no shifts, he would have a monopoly on any resources covered by your "green" available area...
Personally, I think your suggestions are the quickest way to 100% kill all crafting professions..but perhaps that's what you want, eh?
Barron wrote:
Just to jump in here...
Liza, did you realize there's a resource available that allows us to check how long a particular resource has been available, thereby allowing us the luxury of knowing, roughly, how much longer it'll be around? It's not 100% accurate, but it's a very good guide.
Im talking, of course, about SWGcraft.com. The resources listed for each planet (except for Lok, Dathomir and Dantooine) are fairly accurate and generally show up there within 12-24 hours of popping up in-game (I know Corellia is fairly accurate as I live there and keep that as up-to-date as I can...at least for the minerals/chemicals/gasses). I spend my first few minutes every single night just making sure SWGCraft is showing what is available on Corellia...if something's missing or no longer available, I make sure to correct it...
Yes, I'm aware of that site and it's good, but not perfect..
I for one like the shifting resource thing. Yes, for those of you who dabble in artisan/architect/etc it may seem like a lot of work, but I know for me at most it takes 15 mins or so on a nightly basis to hit all my harvesters (I tend to bunch them up on good spots) to empty them out, and then once a week or so it'll take me some time to move them to the next good resource after what Im mining dries up, but I can usually find something good within 30-60 mins. All things considered, a couple hours a week total to deal with my harvesters...not too bad considering I average 2-3 hours in-game each weeknight and double/triple that on Fri/Sat/Sun...
However, by your own admission you are collecting resources only for the purpose of distrubution and selling, not for personal use.. Since I dabbled into the many of the crafting areas, such as medical stims.. I can guarantee you it takes much much more time to check my harvesters for Lok Wheat, Talusian Water, Dant berries, Tatooine Fiber, Class 4 .. etc etc.. Consider the cost of travel and time, resourcing and crafting medical stims was almost impossible for someone that only has an hour or two every couple nights..
Honestly, if you think your idea of red/green zones for harvesting will be better than what we currently have, you're sadly deluded. I know on Starsider there's a guy (cant remember his name) that labels his harvesters EmGo______(insert weird name here). He has a LOT of people giving him their lots and constantly has 30-60 harvesters (if not more) on every single mineral resource (especially the highest concentrations) between Kor Vella and Alya'Starn (player city to the S of Kor Vella). If he didnt have to find high concentrations, Ican guarantee you that with your system, unless these "green" areas are monstrously huge (say 1/4 of the entire planet) that this guy would have every square inch covered with his harvesters, thereby screwing everyone else out of getting anything....and with no shifts, he would have a monopoly on any resources covered by your "green" available area...
I seriously doubt it, but we may never know
Personally, I think your suggestions are the quickest way to 100% kill all crafting professions..but perhaps that's what you want, eh?
That is already been done by SOE, wait till the hologrind madness if over.. Actually with any new system that is more casual friendly and static will help professions and the customer base in general.. Currently many, including myself have and are cancelling due to the restraints set forth by grinding and maintenance..
Figured I'd go ahead and post a response here, although at first I had intended not to.
Liza... I understand your concerns. And I think your ideas were well thought out.
However, this game is not meant to be "easy" persay. But I have to say that it DOES cater to the "casual gamer" just as much as it does to the "power gamer". But it caters IN DIFFERENT WAYS.
A "casual gamer" should NOT be able to compete with a "power gamer". It wouldn't be fair to the power gamer. The power gamer spends a lot of time, logs in every day, checks all his harvestors, pays maintenance, advertises, gets his business going, etc etc etc....
That's a lot of work! Don't argue that "you don't have the time to spend 8 hours a day!" Well that's fine! You don't have the time. But don't come down on the people who DO have the time. Just realize that it is a different gaming experience.
As a "casual gamer", wouldn't it be better to use maybe smaller harvestors? If you don't play all the time, you're not going to have the kinds of business traffic that a "power gamer" has. So why would you need as many resources? See my point?
Now let's imagine that you have 2 people.... .1 person is a bachelor (or bachelorette 
) and works 70 hours a week and makes a ton of money.
The 2nd person has 3 kids, is married, and is only able to work 15 hours a week.
Should the person with 3 kids working 15 hours a week earn the same amount of money? NO WAY! There's no Exchange there.
The whole basis of an economy is EXCHANGE. Without it, you have no economy. You exchange one thing for another. Just like the old barter system. You need some eggs, and all you have to trade is milk. The guy with the eggs doesn't need milk, so he won't give youthe eggs. So now you have to find someone else who needs milk and who has something that the egg guy needs........ this can get really complicated. Fortunately, we decided to start using MONEY instead of continuing this barbaric system of exchange. Now, in Star Wars Galaxies, we're talking about fake money (called "credits"). But it works on the same principal. The minute you get something for nothing, you violate that crucial element of exchange. I'm not saying you can't ever receive gifts. But just that in order to keep an economy going, there has to be exchange happening all the time. I'm not about to argue economics... that's not the point of this post.
I just wanted to impress upon you the concept that a "power gamer" and a "casual gamer" are two different people doing the same job in greater or lesser degree. So the reward earned from the job you do should be based on the amount you invest into it. Plain and simple.
LadyLeala wrote:
Figured I'd go ahead and post a response here, although at first I had intended not to.
Liza... I understand your concerns. And I think your ideas were well thought out.
However, this game is not meant to be "easy" persay. But I have to say that it DOES cater to the "casual gamer" just as much as it does to the "power gamer". But it caters IN DIFFERENT WAYS.
Im sorry to say, but this game caters to the power gamer dear.. That is one of many reasons why most people left the game.. I will explain more as this thread moves along..
A "casual gamer" should NOT be able to compete with a "power gamer". It wouldn't be fair to the power gamer. The power gamer spends a lot of time, logs in every day, checks all his harvestors, pays maintenance, advertises, gets his business going, etc etc etc....
The only difference between a power gamer and a casual gamer is "time spent online".. End of story.. This holds true in any game.. If you have the time, you get the reward.. It's not based on who does a better job, or is more socially accepted, etc etc..
That's a lot of work! Don't argue that "you don't have the time to spend 8 hours a day!" Well that's fine! You don't have the time. But don't come down on the people who DO have the time. Just realize that it is a different gaming experience.
My complaint with all this isn't the power gamer.. If they have no real life and wish to spend 8hr a day online, that is their problem, not mine.. However, when SOE targets the power gamer to stifel their income, and abilities, they also end up hurting the casual gamer more so then it effects the power gamer..Why should a casual gamer that plays 1 hr a day pay the same house maintenance as someone who plays 8 hrs a day.. Same logic exist all thru this game and it just isn't good game dynamics.. Just take a look at our USA tax structures.. How would you like it if everyone paid $2,000/yr real estate tax and $4,000/yr income tax..This is the dynamics that SOE fails to see and recognize..Too much of this game is focused on keeping the power gamer in check, with no concerns to the casual gamer.. There are ways to solve that, but I won't get into that on this thread..
As a "casual gamer", wouldn't it be better to use maybe smaller harvestors? If you don't play all the time, you're not going to have the kinds of business traffic that a "power gamer" has. So why would you need as many resources? See my point?
Without getting into details, but I will point out one thing tho.. Small harvester are more finacially penalizing then mediums.. That is just a fact..
Now let's imagine that you have 2 people.... .1 person is a bachelor (or bachelorette
The 2nd person has 3 kids, is married, and is only able to work 15 hours a week.
Should the person with 3 kids working 15 hours a week earn the same amount of money? NO WAY! There's no Exchange there.
Bad example.. sorry.. Lets use my tax example.. Would it be fair for the 70 hr working bachelor and the married family person to pay the exact same taxes.. NO. this is why we have a tax structure the way it is.. Granted there are alot of loops hole that allow rich to evade taxes,, but speaking generally here.. If 2 people are paying 30% in taxes, then the person who makes more, pays more.. This does NOT hold true in SWG.. As I have tried to convey, too much of this game is based upon taxing (maintenance) based upon what SOE deems to be appropriate to keep moneysinks, however, those moneysinks only hurt the causual player.. The less you play the more it hurts you.. Bad game design and I doubt you'll see this happen again in any future games to this extent..
The whole basis of an economy is EXCHANGE. Without it, you have no economy. You exchange one thing for another. Just like the old barter system. You need some eggs, and all you have to trade is milk. The guy with the eggs doesn't need milk, so he won't give youthe eggs. So now you have to find someone else who needs milk and who has something that the egg guy needs........ this can get really complicated. Fortunately, we decided to start using MONEY instead of continuing this barbaric system of exchange. Now, in Star Wars Galaxies, we're talking about fake money (called "credits"). But it works on the same principal. The minute you get something for nothing, you violate that crucial element of exchange. I'm not saying you can't ever receive gifts. But just that in order to keep an economy going, there has to be exchange happening all the time. I'm not about to argue economics... that's not the point of this post.
I'm glad you wish to not argue economics as I would hate to inform you that I'm 40+ years of age, semi retired as a corporate treasure, and recieved my degree from Kent State Univ, which happens to hold the highest accreditation that any business college can have.. I've been in real life business and made my retirement and now relaxing being a parent and raising a family as hubby continues to work.. Everything in our economy is more then just simple supply and demand.. Once you learn the power of "interest rates", "tax rates", etc etc, you'll begin to know how those elements can stimulate or cripple an economy..
I just wanted to impress upon you the concept that a "power gamer" and a "casual gamer" are two different people doing the same job in greater or lesser degree. So the reward earned from the job you do should be based on the amount you invest into it. Plain and simple.
True to a degree.. I'm not saying that is a power gamer wants to earn 100,000 a day doing whatever, they shouldn't be allowed.. What I'm saying is that if SOE deems that to be too much money and starts to tax in the form of moneysinks like maintenance at a rate of 20,000 a day, then the end effect is that everyone that makes less then 20,000 goes broke and folds up shop.. If SOE wants to be fair about it.. make moneysinks in the game "per diem" aka "per item" or whatever pro-rated formula they wish to use.. The power gamer still makes more, but it becomes proportionate % wise as the casual gamer.. I for one live in a democracy that promote fairness for the most part, and I'm glad our tax and economic structure isn't designed like what SWG devs have done..
Liza_Vel wrote:
I'm glad you wish to not argue economics as I would hate to inform you that I'm 40+ years of age, semi retired as a corporate treasure, and recieved my degree from Kent State Univ, which happens to hold the highest accreditation that any business college can have.. I've been in real life business and made my retirement and now relaxing being a parent and raising a family as hubby continues to work.. Everything in our economy is more then just simple supply and demand.. Once you learn the power of "interest rates", "tax rates", etc etc, you'll begin to know how those elements can stimulate or cripple an economy..
Well, you've really put me in my place. Thank you for making it so clear to me.
I have no further questions, your honor. (and yes, I am done with this thread completely as it is pointless)
Liza_Vel wrote:
Barron wrote:
I for one like the shifting resource thing. Yes, for those of you who dabble in artisan/architect/etc it may seem like a lot of work, but I know for me at most it takes 15 mins or so on a nightly basis to hit all my harvesters (I tend to bunch them up on good spots) to empty them out, and then once a week or so it'll take me some time to move them to the next good resource after what Im mining dries up, but I can usually find something good within 30-60 mins. All things considered, a couple hours a week total to deal with my harvesters...not too bad considering I average 2-3 hours in-game each weeknight and double/triple that on Fri/Sat/Sun...
However, by your own admission you are collecting resources only for the purpose of distrubution and selling, not for personal use.. Since I dabbled into the many of the crafting areas, such as medical stims.. I can guarantee you it takes much much more time to check my harvesters for Lok Wheat, Talusian Water, Dant berries, Tatooine Fiber, Class 4 .. etc etc.. Consider the cost of travel and time, resourcing and crafting medical stims was almost impossible for someone that only has an hour or two every couple nights..
Liza, where do you see this "admission" of mine that I am simply collecting resources to sell on the bazaar? I never once intimated that. As a Master Architect/Master Artisan I sell very few of my resources...what I do sell is a little bit of excess that I know I'll never use...
Why are you checking the harvesters for the resources? All you have to do is stand outside somewhere, crank up the surveying device and see what shows in the list...if what you need isnt listed, it aint around. Period. If you do see it, that's when you take some time, find a good spot for what you need, save the wp and then go move your harvs over to it. It sounds to me like you're making more work for yourself than you need to.
Some games are not for the casual gamer. A casual gamer plays game that you play for once and then play until you are tired of it and then buy a new one.
MMORPG's are designed people that are NOT casual gamers. Please leave us alone and go back to playing warcraft or starcraft.
Liza posted some of her thoughts. Other people reacted pretty strongly. Flames were exchanged. Too bad. 
The people that where dismissive of Liza's ideas ruined this thread. Sorry but if you don't like someones idea than either just move along orlearn how to use constructive criticism. Otherwise you're just starting a flame war and adding no value whatsoever.
Liza, please don't resort to flaming back when people don't like your ideas. Implying that power gamers are losers with nothing better to do is mean spirited and will only hurt your cause. Implying that other people don't understand taxs or interest is just plain unwarranted arrogance. You're an adult?... act like one.
In all honesty I find maitenence rates to be very fair for all who play... How can I say this. You put in your maintence and power in your harvesters, you let them run for 5 days, You now have a resouces of some type. You have possibly a full harvester with anywhere from 30-115K of resouces in each. Even if the material stinks you can still sell them for 2 CPU. Giving you 60-230K Credits minimum. That is per harvester. This more than covers your costs. Just a thought. I am not a power gamer, I work a job and have a wife, and I do fine, I do not play 8 hrs a day 7 days a week. Some how I have developed a clientel that comes back to me not because I am the cheapest, but because I give good service. Now you may ask "Why do they come back?" Most have chosen to change professions, and need new equipment to service their new hobbies, or they have gotten more money and want to move out of the rediculusly small naboo round they have lived in for 3 months. If you live in a vacuum then you will be in trouble, networking even for non power gamer is a good thing. The architect is very viable profession, and I just like doing it, money or no money. I agree somethings need to be examined, that is why I send ideas to the guy who speaks to Dev team for us. Just at thought.