Architect Archive
Thread: Resource quality does matter
I would love a dev response. I'm using the higher quality stuff because ive had great luck finding it. If there was a 10+% difference in low quality stuff I would probably use that instead.
But if i have to choose between a 57% ore deposit with toughness of 900+ or a 60% ore deposit toughness 140 ill take the 57%.
I've had about 6 crits in the past 3 weeks. I could care less about ore quality.
I do use top quality tools, though.
given a choice between the 57% high quality and 60% low quality.... I'll take whichever is closer to my house...
if its the same distance.... give me the 60% every time.
Hmmm I run the city thatTa'koka lives in, or Brain9824, and we both helped each other move up the architect ladder and I'm the one that kept telling him how the resources matter and I'll go into the reason why. Now before I became a Master Architect I would use any ore I could get my hands on and I never experimented on the durability of any of my products. I failed on may walls, tons of furniture,many structure modules, many small houses, about three mediums, 2 large, and a fusion. Now once I became Master I used strictly material that had over 800 in unit toughness and during final combinations used materials with over 800 in unit toughness and at least over 600 in decay resist and I experiment on all products to get it at a higher durability before going to the nextcompontent. Since doing so I have only failed on one fusion, a few sturcture modules, some furniture,and some walls and two small houses. Now I've been Master for well over a month now and I've made well over 20 PA halls, 15 fusions, 30 heavies, and so many houses I lost count after the first week of being Master. I have concluded that using better resources as lower the chancefor me to fail on the final combinations. The way you get crits is its based on a percent to fail which is based on the quality of the product through experimentation and quality of resources, the higher you go up in structure assembly and the better quality the resources you use the higher of a quality item you make and the less likely you are to fail when creating the part and using it for final combinations. Now of course if you try to do some kind research and build 200 structure modules you are going to crit some what near the same and the reason why is because the devs clearly posted that thelower the complexity that an item or deed is the greater a chance you have to crit. They made it where you tend to crit less on large projects but thatsnot how its going to seem if you just use what ever resource you can find and don't experiment onany of the parts. Now if you want to do a real test try building 10 fusions withcrappy resources and see how many crits you get making all those and then try again with high top resources with unit toughness well over 800 and on the final combination make sure that the decay resist is well above 600. You'll see then that you'll crit less with the good resources but to be honestI don't think any architect wants to do this kind of test.
Everyday I go to these forums and see countless post on how some other arch crit on such and such project and how crits are so unfair and then I see other people posts on how resources don't matter and how they use what ever they can get and I just shake my head at the whole thing. Wake up and start using better resources and experiment on your products especially if you are planning on using it as a schematic and you'll seea major decrease in your crits.
Maller Malice
Master Architect and future Urban Planner of New Aldera, Tatooine, Starsider
Oh and for anyone saying what when did the devs post anything on them lessing crits, look at the update page and the response that they gave to us about our problems with the profession. You'll clearly see that they said they feel they made it more reasonable but doesn't mean that didn't make it where you never crit. Help youself and cover everything could lead to a crit because its not the best feeling in the world when you lose over 20k of resources and have nothing to show for it but wasted time.
I agee, the quality of the material is just and "urban myth" at this point. I hear it over and over from people but in reality if does not seem to matter. The crafting tool itself seems to be the key. Not the material. Get a good tool with positive effectiveness rating and your fails will decrease. IF you are using one you made as a newbie you are missing the boat.
Brian - While the post about just 1 structure might not be that great of a test, yours isn't exactly either. On a good day failures are less than 5% for me. So to get even a decent number I would have to do 1000 combines and that would just be 50 failures. Now if I had 70 that would not mean I did something different. To prove something like this by inspection you would need at least 10k and probably more like 100k combines to get any sort of real data.
For every person that says the quality matters there is about 3 that say it doesn't.
This is the same thing as the better tools. I have yet to see any proof that it makes a difference right now and I've seen more data to represent that it doesn't do a think. Most of the trials were like yours with a few hundred combines. So not proof, just something to think about.
I personally will continue to use whatever ore I find at whatever quality, because until the devs start actually thinking about improving the architect profession things like that isn't going to change just like experimentation.
Ok my experience is that resource quality matter for crit failures in one scenario only... the resources you use to build your tools (and even then it only helps in the future, not that build)...
I've been assembling several items per day since then end of June... Before I upgraded my tools, I failed a fair amount... after my first upgrade I failed a bit less... now I have assembled tools and crafting stations that all have an effectiveness ratings of +14.93... I am failing very infrequently regardless of the quality of the materials used in any one build.
Just my $0.02
the stats on the resources currently have no impact on the critical failure rate of the completed item.... you seem to be throwing out all evidence that contradicts yours as luck or bad run ........ then all reports that support yours are canon ..... that is not objective
1. the more variety you put into an experiment the less control you have thus ruining any accuracy among your results.
2. an experiment should focus on one item. the only change there should have been was the the stats on the ore.
3. make 300 items of one resourcestatin 100 run groups. average out the critical failure rate in the three resulting groups.
4. make 300 of anotherresource stat100 run groups. average out the critical failure rate in the three resultng groups.
5. compare the results of the two runs ......... there will be no difference or very little difference.
I did this test on several different items. all results were within a normal 2% variation.
The critical failure system is nothing but a random number generator. it takes the complexity of the item subtracts that number from your skill then takes that number and determines how much of a chance you should have to fail. the problem with this simplistic system is that the random number generators arn't always so random. you could theoretically never ever critically fail. or you could critically fail every single time. luckily odds are that you will fail a certain percentage every run.
Currently complexity doesnt change unless you experiment on the item. so for arguement sake you have a fairly static complexity. as you improve that complexity should decrease but it doesnt. the way they work it is to raise your skill. but heres the kicker .... Our skill only goes to +55 where as all other crafting professions go to +100 so we have a higher chance of crit fail right there.
now this next part is unconfirmed .....the devs had stated sometime before beta that they wanted higher lvl charactors to focus on making higher lvl items and leave the lower lvl items to the lower lvl players .... the solution they gave was that you'd actually have a higher critical failure rate on the easy items making it not worth your while to craft them. If this is true then we are in alot of trouble.
1. As you improve the items you make become more complex increasing critical failure rate.
2. Our skill to reduce critical failure rate is almost half of the other crafting classes.
3. Our critical failure rates may also be artifically be boosted by the fact that they consider the item trivial to us..
4. Reliance on a random number generator for critical failures is an overly simplistic way to determine whether we fail or not. (though i am stressed to come up with a better system myself)
just use factories 0.o...on wall units, if you have the chance of failing more than once, you use a factory to make them...think about it, you basicly fail once to prevent anymore failures....
sil