Architect Archive
Thread: SKILLPOINTS UNBALANCED FOR CRAFTSMEN??
Well for sure, yeah, more content is always the right answer. 
... but Architects particularly have some very cool new stuff coming down the line and hopefully new stuff like the way park schematics are being done and the co-tailor tent thingy will make more updates. All in all, crafting in this game kicks so much butt already and no, I don't want anything done to mess that up or the very cool economy.
I just don't see how adding an extra 25-50 skill points to everyone could mess that up. Pulling from 2-3 novice skill sets rather than the current 1-2 would just mean more character customisation and would just allow most people (crafters and non-crafters alike) to keep their playstyle they developed while working up to their final plan. Most people's char's seem to show their playstyle best when they are 1/2 to 3/4 done w/ their char layout... not having to give up your diversity as much to have a "finished" toon would be really rewarding I think.
Making Master Craftman cost the same as Master Elite combat is fine, in fact I really wish the Ent and Med elite profs were set up with the same cost fairness, but more character diversity allowed through either raising the over all skill cap limit or lessoning the cost of all base boxes (novice and elite/hybrid) would not be game breaking and would add a lot to the game experience for most people. This should be allowed not in lieu of further content, but along with it. Keeping crafters in their Master title would further incourage the player run economy it seems, not deter it further, yes?
First off, crafting professions are not more expensive than combat professions. A master tka costs the same as a master architect, in terms of skill points (I believe?).
I do not understand your issue. You have enough skillpoints to master an elite crafting profession and an elite combat profession. Do you have enough to master two hybrids? No..should you? An emphatic NO!
I mean, I wanted to be BE and Merchant and skillpoint wise it was doable. But in the end wasn't practical because it allowed for very little combat..and BE's need combat (or it makes life easier). I'm not upset about this at all--I don't have a problem with having to choose.
Now, my husband and I each have our own accounts, which makes things easier because i can have two characters on a server...artisan and combat..but I pay for that priviledge...*shrug*
Which issues are being confused? It's been posted like 5 times that yes, you can be a Master Craftsman/Master Elite Combat and still train Merchant/Surveying significantly... BE's do not have this option as they are not setup as a crafting prof. Med and Ent are the two lines that are the most cost unbalanced, that's why I said crafting skill cost was done fairly as it is in comparison to combat costs but an across the board raising of Learning Capacity would go a long way in addressing the frustration the original poster mentioned and would allow more people to have a char more representative of their proffered playstyle w/o having to rebalance all profs individually.
Merchant particularly should be more accessible, there are some really neat game features built around advertising that are almost never used in game because no one wants to invest so much in the merchant line. You said you wanted merchant as a BE and I think that would be great if it was a real option, I think it would be great if smugglers who have the same cost could have easier access to merchant too (at least a smuggler can master merchant and still have some killer combat skills, which BE's can't) but that's not really going to happen if even the master craftsman who can easily invest in merchant aren't b/c they want to master an elite combat instead!
Yes, there are quite a few "malls" setup with one Merchant and other Master Craftsmen (and smugglers and BE's) just use the Merchant's services. This seems to work by far the best under the current scenario, but everyone is not doing this. I doubt it will ever be the norm since most people are already complaining about interdependence in combat situations and this goes a lot further in that vein.
There seems to be a very strong desire for rules and restrictions among the forum regulars that is misrepresentative of the overall desires of the average player. Most people want to do more with their characters, not less. I've only ever played one other MMORPG for any significant period of time, but it seems that there is a usually a strong imbalance between the average game player's desires and those of the forum regulars... which leads to what? Can we say nerf?
This phenomena seems to be even more severe in this game because the branding has brought in so many gamers who would not normally be playing an MMORPG. I can understand how being a hardcore traditional RPGer (cards and paper types) might lend itself to an enjoyment of strict rules and overall restrictions.... in those situations understanding every nuance of how the game and the different classes work would be a test of intellect and adds to the satisfaction of the gamer. This just doesn't carry over well into an action "video" game... most people want the same quality of experience in their PC games that they have in their console games.
Less restrictions leads to an overall increase in gamer satisfaction. Put the paper char sheet away and say "this is a new breed of game... there can be many ways to have fun in it... I like meeting new people that don't have a traditional RPG background along w/ the people who do... this game can be fun for everyone... more is good! Nerfs and senseless restrictions are bad!". Come on, I know you can say it. It only hurts a little. /wink
This is my template.
Master Artisan
Master Architect
Scout 4/0/0/1
Marksman 4/2/1/4
Rifleman 3/0/0/1
Can I hunt Holocrons solo? No.
Can I hold my own in group PvP? Yes.
-Renzer
Master Artisan + Master Architect + Teras Kasi Master = 232 skill points.
Plenty. Still room to pick up novice medic or entertainer.
they were talking about lowering it to 200 limit? hope they figure out what to do with bounty hunters first then
Running the numbers...
Sure, going up to Master Architect costs 158 skill points (29 for the Engineering tree of Artisan, and 129 for all Architect skills).
Plenty left? Lets' see...
I don't know anyone who makes it up to Master Architect by buying all of their minerals. Surveying and extracting becomes tedious at low levels, so it makes sense to get surveying as well...that's 14 more points.
144 left.
Next, until you get to Engineering III, there really aren't any good items to craft, other than bone armor. Bone armor requires Domestic Arts I. That, and being able to craft doesn't mean that you're good at it, so it makes sense to do the entireDomestic Arts tree, as well. This way, you get all of the assembly and experimentation bonuses...that's 14 more points.
130 left.
Now, let's say that you actually want to make some money, and sell your deeds out of your house. Well, you need at least Business III to do that. Oh, WOW that's expensive. Don't want to use the bulky terminal vendor? Better get Business IV....14 more.
116 left.
Tried to make a crafting station lately? Needs 4 control units, 2 Electronic GP units, 2 Power Conditioners, and 2 Micro Sensor Suites. Better get Master Artisan just to be sure...6 more.
110 left.
Remember wanting to make bone armor? How do you get bone and hide? Well, time to take some Scout skills. Oh yeah, and since your a crafter, you'd better be able to negotiate terrain and run like hell...29 more.
81 left.
Holy crap, vendor fees still suck! That, and my vendors do nothing, and nobody knows about my store...better get the advertising andefficiency treesfrom Merchant...29 more.
47 left.
Wow, mining on Lok is great, but I get the crap kicked out of me all the time, and there aren't any medics or entertainers to heal me...better take either Novice Entertainer or Novice Medic...15 more.
32left.
You know, it might make sense if I shoot back every now and then. Let's take one the Marksman trees...basically, this leaves you enough SP remaining to get one hand weapon tree, and one block of ranged weapon support. Talking from experience, it's tough to survive on that.
So, I guess that I'd be voting FOR adding 25 more skill points. Sure, 250 is a lot, but as you can see, they go FAST.
The problem is, that [if you add more]you'll always have the power-gamers who will abuse it, and be able to dotoo muchon their own. Power-gamers tend to stay away from crafting, so I guess you could solve this by making crafting skill cost less. Who knows. Just my $0.02.
is this guy serious? craft if you want to, fight if you will. would i need to talk to anyone if i could be a master bounty hunter, ranger, scout, artisian, marksman, weaponsmith, droid engineer, and architect?? use your brain man! i liked the idea when sony was talking about making it 200 skill points, i was upset at first but now seeing how this has gotten abused (250 skill points that is) i wish that the cap would have been limited to 200. i can master 3 professions and have 3 skill points left over, isnt that enough? if you dont believe me, add up master architect, master droid engineer, and master rifleman. no surveying and no ranged support, do i need surveying? no, i could by every bit of material i need,i do not because i enjoy the process. 3 mastered professions, and we dont have enough skill points??? geez....
Ikoof
Structural Engineer-Chilastra
GaeBek wrote:
Running the numbers...
Sure, going up to Master Architect costs 158 skill points (29 for the Engineering tree of Artisan, and 129 for all Architect skills).
Plenty left? Lets' see...
I don't know anyone who makes it up to Master Architect by buying all of their minerals. Surveying and extracting becomes tedious at low levels, so it makes sense to get surveying as well...that's 14 more points.
144 left.
Next, until you get to Engineering III, there really aren't any good items to craft, other than bone armor. Bone armor requires Domestic Arts I. That, and being able to craft doesn't mean that you're good at it, so it makes sense to do the entireDomestic Arts tree, as well. This way, you get all of the assembly and experimentation bonuses...that's 14 more points.
130 left.
Now, let's say that you actually want to make some money, and sell your deeds out of your house. Well, you need at least Business III to do that. Oh, WOW that's expensive. Don't want to use the bulky terminal vendor? Better get Business IV....14 more.
116 left.
Tried to make a crafting station lately? Needs 4 control units, 2 Electronic GP units, 2 Power Conditioners, and 2 Micro Sensor Suites. Better get Master Artisan just to be sure...6 more.
110 left.
Remember wanting to make bone armor? How do you get bone and hide? Well, time to take some Scout skills. Oh yeah, and since your a crafter, you'd better be able to negotiate terrain and run like hell...29 more.
81 left.
Holy crap, vendor fees still suck! That, and my vendors do nothing, and nobody knows about my store...better get the advertising andefficiency treesfrom Merchant...29 more.
47 left.
Wow, mining on Lok is great, but I get the crap kicked out of me all the time, and there aren't any medics or entertainers to heal me...better take either Novice Entertainer or Novice Medic...15 more.
32left.
You know, it might make sense if I shoot back every now and then. Let's take one the Marksman trees...basically, this leaves you enough SP remaining to get one hand weapon tree, and one block of ranged weapon support. Talking from experience, it's tough to survive on that.
So, I guess that I'd be voting FOR adding 25 more skill points. Sure, 250 is a lot, but as you can see, they go FAST.
The problem is, that [if you add more]you'll always have the power-gamers who will abuse it, and be able to dotoo muchon their own. Power-gamers tend to stay away from crafting, so I guess you could solve this by making crafting skill cost less. Who knows. Just my $0.02.
Wow. Old thread! Never got to see what rants my post created as I quit soon after.
Looks like you are one of the few that got what I was trying to say as far as support skills for that master craftsman.
However, I was not suggesting they raise the skill point cap. Only that the 'crafting' trees cost a little less in skill points than the combat trees. That way the power gamers that will not craft get no more combat skills, while craftsmen, still not being able to master combat professions will at least have a chance of holding their own while out gathering resources.
Some here have noted that it was still possible to mastera combat profession while being a crafter. While that is possible it is unlikely, as to be a respectable crafter you would need the support classes mentioned above. Something else that was not mentioned was that those combat classes with no crafting skills can also master other combat classes and take other skills that enhance or compliment the other combat skills and professions.
The suggestion, and I think a very reasonable one is to slightly reduce the cost of crafting trees skill points. I am NOT saying craftsmen should be able to master combat professions as well as craft. Only that theycould use a few more points for some combat skills.