Architect Archive

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OkarasBargainBasement wrote:

Why am I not surprised that Pawlin's response was no immediate (and btw, I did look at your last 2900 responses, and you complain ALOT).

I post a lot. But over all I don't believe I have complained a lot. Recently I'm being more and more vocal about our issues, that is true.

And why is it that everytime someone talks about a profession here , such as like when I talked about computer programming, the biggest loud mouth always ends up being whatever profession was mentioned. I could have said garbage man and I bet you would have said, "and FYI I am a garbage man, and I know blah blah blah".

No you are wrong. I'm not a garbage man. I would not have claimed to be a garbage man.Or a doctor or a business owner or a school teacher. I already told you, I work in the computer industry.

ARe you implying that I'm a liar? It kinda sounds like you are. Seems like you are doubting that what I said was true or trying to call foul on what you think is just too unlikely of a coincidence that a total nerd like me playing a star wars MMO computer game just happens to also be employeed in the computer industry.

All I see is complaining, and whining. And I know I am complaining and whining to, because I'm sick of hearing it. You have not heard a response in over a year, and let me repeat what I said before....if they didn't respond with the first 5000 complaints what makes you think 5001 will do the trick.

So what exactly is your point to all this?? Should we all give up? What do you want?

Is it that you want everyone to "shut up" because you find it annoying? How likely do you think that is to happen? Honestly. Did you think if you came here and said "quit whining" that everyone would say "oh gee, you're right we shouldnt' complain cause we don't wish to bother you. Sorry we won't do it again"? Or what did you expect?

You all know about majority rule correct (I'll assume you all do, though I don't know some of you apparently don't know much,and yes thats an insult for the less then intellegent)...The majority of players are combat, and the minority are by far in the architect profession (one reason I like it). Where is the sense in screwing over the majority and benefiting the minority. SOE knows perfectly when what it is doing...and if any of your people could ever open you eyes, it doesn't matter what online game you go to SOE will get your money since they have their hand in each and everyone one of them if you do the research. So go to WoW or everquest, they do work with everyone of them. They will get your money one way or another.

Every individual profession is itself a minority. By this logic no individual profession should ever get any fixes because they are not the majority?

How does making OMU's crate hurt the majority? How does fixing experimentation on fusions screw the majority? HOw does new furniture colors harm anyone?

I imagine some people here would like a roll back on the structure decay but I doubt we'd get that. I haven't called for it but you know that since you read my 2900 posts here.

I'm not aware of any financial ties between WoW and SOE.

And you all talk about my tone in these messages, I have never read such rage especially from Pawlin, in responses. Mine is out of frustration, your's is out of hatred and just meanness.

I at least know common respect not to attack the person and the issue, you attack the person...

I do NOT hate you or anyone else here. I do not hate SOE. Not even close. Let me repeat that so its clear: I do not hate or anyone else here. It is just a game.

I'm not attacking you personally. I don't know you at all. All I know is what you've written above.

Maybe you saw something personally offensive in my responses that I don't intend or realize was there. I do not intend to be mean to anyone and I honestly don't really think I have been mean to you or others in this thread. We are discussing a topic relevant to our profession. I intend to keep it civil. If I personally offend you then please let me know. I don't want offend you and would apologize if I did so unintentionaly.

but I guess I did just call you all impatient and stupid, so I guess contradicting myself here only makes me just the same as all you whiner's. Maybe I should start posting 4000 messages with GIMME GIMME GIMME. it's a STUPID GAME worth 15 DOLLARS. Get over it...and if 15 bucks is too much for you to spend to worry about such trivial things you shouldn't be playing a game that costs something.

I hope this was more broken up for those less able to READ. Patience is a virtue, and obviosuly EVERYONE (and yes I said everyone, because last time I made the mistake of assuming everyone had a brain) does not have any virtues worth mentioning along those lines.

I'm still frustrated beyond belief at you people, its just amazing how defensive and personal you take these games. As if it were life or death. And of course I know I will see this message picked apart by the mean spirited Pawlin for his 4900th response because obviuously he loves to listen to himself or herself talk.

I'm not mean spirited. Is saying that "obviously he loves ot listen to himself or herself talk" a personal attack against me or not? It seems like it is.

P.S. I am an architect in the real world, and architects were NOT used for building seige towers...those were ENGINEERS. Big difference in the worth of design. So as I said Architects are not needed for wars, if you had ever studied the history of it. Going all the way back to medival castles and before. ENGINEERS built those things and designed them, because it was an engineering feet not a design factor....

Yes thats true. But we are talking about the Architect profession in SWG.Within the context of this game SWG architects are the profession that builds structures. Of course we don't "design" anything in the game. So architect and its basis the artisan professions engineering tree is the closest that we've got in this game.

So your real response should be that you should be BEGGING for an engineering profession...which personally I think would be pretty cool. I would much prefer to hear your thoughts on that idea. Honest and seriously on that one.

Depending on how exactly it was done, a "combat engineer" profession might be pretty fun.

But since you read my 2900 posts you already know that I I'd prefer that making GCW structures should be added to our profession. I've said manytimes in this forum that I think getting GCW structures would be a good thing for the architect profession.

Enough of the whining and bickering here, I'm sorry I even said anything, if I knew everyone would get so "personal" over frustrations.

If you didn't wantpeople to react to your post the way we have then you shouldn't have used the tone you did from the start. You took the offensivein your first post. Really. You did.

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OkarasBargainBasement wrote:

From your First Post in this forum you wrote:

Maybe if alot of the architects weren't lazy and didn't expect to be spoon fed, and have the DEV's force players to line up outside your tents in the middle of no where or in a dying town with no shuttleport you might actually have a successful run at architect and make a decent living off of it.

I guess I haven't forgotten that SWG is a GAME and not life or death. And whenever a game stops being fun or you have to complain about the content, maybe you shouldn't be playing it, because whats the point then.

Sorry if I offended anyone, but I have gotten so frustrated with this forum over the past couple of weeks. It has gone from a forum of questions and curiousities, to a forum of GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME DEV's, or YOU KILLED US, OH THE HORROR

From your Second Post in this forum you wrote:

You also OBVIOSULY don't realize how complex programming a game of this level is, otherwise you wouldn't be "throwing your arms up" constantly asking the SAME QUESTIONS

but when there are several different threads about the reapeat of bestines painting it just begs the question about the intellegence of the people playing this game, and that does anyone think things through on how the game is played before they decide to run here and post a complaint or yell at the DEV's for so called killing us.

From your Third Post in this forum you wrote:

Why am I not surprised that Pawlin's response was no immediate (and btw, I did look at your last 2900 responses, and you complain ALOT)

And you all talk about my tone in these messages, I have never read such rage especially from Pawlin, in responses. Mine is out of frustration, your's is out of hatred and just meanness. I at least know common respect not to attack the person and the issue, you attack the person...but I guess I did just call you all impatient and stupid, so I guess contradicting myself here only makes me just the same as all you whiner's . Maybe I should start posting 4000 messages with GIMME GIMME GIMME. it's a STUPID GAME worth 15 DOLLARS. Get over it...and if 15 bucks is too much for you to spend to worry about such trivial things you shouldn't be playing a game that costs something.

And of course I know I will see this message picked apart by the mean spirited Pawlin for his 4900th response because obviuously he loves to listen to himself or herself talk.

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Just because you are not attacking a specific person doesn't mean you aren't attacking people. Look at the comments you make, you question people's intelligence and their maturity constantly. And then, ironically, you attack Pawlin because he "attacks" you. I have been upset with the changes made in Arch lately, and I have posted that on the forums, so yes you were attacking me even though you didn't say my name specifically.

-Also, picking apart someones argument isn't mean spirited, it is an excellent debate tactic and a cornerstone of most debate courses. When someone does this it is nothing against you personally, but it is just a clear orginized way of responding to what you've said point by point.

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OkarasBargainBasement wrote:

(and this is what is truely funny, one of you said that you weren't throwing up in arms, then the next guys agree's with you, and uses the terms what really makes me throw my arms up...contradiction in itself, but its a moot point)

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Again not only is this an attack and in a poor tone but it is also inaccurate, this is what i said:

"I think what everyone is up in arms about is that the Devs seem to be going out of their way for Other professions, like combat, but haven't paid any attention to any of our problems"

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OkarasBargainBasement wrote:

And why is it that everytime someone talks about a profession here , such as like when I talked about computer programming, the biggest loud mouth always ends up being whatever profession was mentioned. I could have said garbage man and I bet you would have said, "and FYI I am a garbage man, and I know blah blah blah". All I see is complaining, and whining....

P.S. I am an architect in the real world, and architects were NOT used for building seige towers...those were ENGINEERS. Big difference in the worth of design. So as I said Architects are not needed for wars, if you had ever studied the history of it. Going all the way back to medival castles and before. ENGINEERS built those things and designed them, because it was an engineering feet not a design factor....

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no comment.

I am not tring to be a jerk here, just helping you look at your posts so you can pinpoint what it is that maybe caused people to have such negative reactions to you. It's not your viewpoint it's the way you express it that i think bothers people (at least it bothers me) the most. (I do disagree with your viewpoint but it was more the tone and the agressiveness in your comments that got me a little stirred.)

One quick question, yes engineer's built the towers, but who designed them? And to be an Arch you have to go up the engineering tree, so aren't we already engineer's?

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OkarasBargainBasement wrote:

P.S. I am an architect in the real world, and architects were NOT used for building seige towers...those were ENGINEERS. Big difference in the worth of design. So as I said Architects are not needed for wars, if you had ever studied the history of it. Going all the way back to medival castles and before. ENGINEERS built those things and designed them, because it was an engineering feet not a design factor....

So your real response should be that you should be BEGGING for an engineering profession...which personally I think would be pretty cool. I would much prefer to hear your thoughts on that idea. Honest and seriously on that one. Enough of the whining and bickering here, I'm sorry I even said anything, if I knew everyone would get so "personal" over frustrations.

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Oh thank god you're an architect IRL. I was afraid for a moment there you might be an SOE game designer. Let me give you another hint: if you don't want things to get personal, don't call people dimwits for holding an opinion that's different from yours. Simple, no?

Let's see, what do SWG architects do? We physically(well, virtually physically, lol) make: furniture, housing, civic structures, factories, crafting stations,etc.

What do architects do IRL? DESIGN THOSE THINGS. I'm trying to remember the last time I did the calculations to determine that yes, a structure module should require x number of ore & y amount of metal. Looks like someone at SOE took care of that detail for me.

In other words, we're really not architects. We build things... that makes us engineers already. So stop playing word games with SOE's terms and go troll over in the Merchant forum. Or to borrow a quote from an EQ Customer Service Manager:

"I find it ironic when people whine about other people whining too much."

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Crimsonsplat wrote:
So stop playing word games with SOE's terms and go troll over in the Merchant forum.

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Hey!!
Don't send him over to me!

Message Edited by Yarnok on 02-07-2005 04:16 PM

Normally I ignore these kinds of posts, but with this one, I felt like contributing

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OkarasBargainBasement wrote:

Why am I not surprised that Pawlin's response was no immediate (and btw, I did look at your last 2900 responses, and you complain ALOT).

Wow, that must've been quite a read!

You have not heard a response in over a year, and let me repeat what I said before....if they didn't respond with the first 5000 complaints what makes you think 5001 will do the trick.

You are absolutely right, just give the developer's the signal that we don't care anymore. Do you think that will help us?

You all know about majority rule correct (I'll assume you all do, though I don't know some of you apparently don't know much,and yes thats an insult for the less then intellegent)...

Hmm, you think we are all stupid,but you also assume we know we are stupid? Aren't you giving us a bit too much credit here?

The majority of players are combat, and the minority are by far in the architect profession (one reason I like it). Where is the sense in screwing over the majority and benefiting the minority.

For one thing, an Architect is an essential profession in this game. Without Architects there are no harvesters,meaning people will have to sample for their resources. Without factories, everything must be made by hand. Without houses you won't be able to start guilds, cities or store/display items. Don't you think that the lack of factories and harvesters will skyrocket the price of various goods? Do you think there would be many players left if you couldn't start a guild?

SOE knows perfectly when what it is doing...and if any of your people could ever open you eyes, it doesn't matter what online game you go to SOE will get your money since they have their hand in each and everyone one of them if you do the research. So go to WoW or everquest, they do work with everyone of them. They will get your money one way or another.

Everquest is a game by Sony yes, but I fail to see the connection to Blizzard. Is this some kind of conspiracy theory? Don't try to explain it though, I'm probably to stupid to understand anyway.

And you all talk about my tone in these messages, I have never read such rage especially from Pawlin, in responses. Mine is out of frustration, your's is out of hatred and just meanness.

OMG. And you call us stupid.

I at least know common respect not to attack the person and the issue, you attack the person...but I guess I did just call you all impatient and stupid, so I guess contradicting myself here only makes me just the same as all you whiner's. Maybe I should start posting 4000 messages with GIMME GIMME GIMME. it's a STUPID GAME worth 15 DOLLARS. Get over it...and if 15 bucks is too much for you to spend to worry about such trivial things you shouldn't be playing a game that costs something.

What does being able to pay 15 dollars or not have to do with anything? It's probably some interconnected market thing I fail to grasp (being stupid and all).

I hope this was more broken up for those less able to READ. Patience is a virtue, and obviosuly EVERYONE (and yes I said everyone, because last time I made the mistake of assuming everyone had a brain) does not have any virtues worth mentioning along those lines. I'm still frustrated beyond belief at you people, its just amazing how defensive and personal you take these games. As if it were life or death. And of course I know I will see this message picked apart by the mean spirited Pawlin for his 4900th response because obviuously he loves to listen to himself or herself talk.

Well, I don't know about Pawlin, but I like seeing him talk. His opinions are always well motivated and I appreciate his help on this forum. Oh and please, stop with the "its-just-a-game". It may be just a game, but there are still flesh and blood people here, who have invested some of their time into this. If you think this is just a game,what are you getting so riled up about then?

P.S. I am an architect in the real world...

Quote: "I could have said garbage man and I bet you would have said, "and FYI I am a garbage man, and I know blah blah blah."

I have no reason to not believe you (and frankly I don't care), but this statement does make it hard to believe.

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OkarasBargainBasement wrote:

4 words...IT IS A GAME!

Right, I think everyone here realizes its a game. No need to shout about that.

Is a game not meant for fun and entertainment, so once you start to complain how is that fun and entertaining. If you are ever NOT satisfied with an aspect of a game how can that be fun or entertaining.

Maybe I miss your point here. Are you saying in order for a game to be fun, it has to be 100% without fault? Or that if we find any fault in something that we can't still enjoy it as a whole?

You can enjoy or love something a lot and still find reason to complain about it. The two are not mutually exclusive. Parents complain about their children, but that doesn't mean they don't love them. I really like playing poker but I might get upset by loosing a big pot if my 4 of a kind is beat by a straight flush. I love my country, but I still think it has some problems.

The point of playing a game is for fun, but what is fun about listening to people whine.

You've made it clear you don't like whining as you've called it. I feel we have valid concerns and complaints and that we have every right to voice them. I don't think everyone here is going to bend to your individual desire and "shut up". Do you expect that? If not then whats your goal in this?

And don't ever assume you created anything more then I did with this profession. I have been an architect from launch day and day 1 of BETA...longer then most of you. I have earned my money through competition, low prices, marleting, and reputation on my server. I have just as much repeat business now as I did a year ago. So I don't need anything else, because if your good at what you do, exisiting members will recommend new members to their guilds and cities to you. So don't even think about calling me second rate. I have done this longer and probably better then most. So unless you have been on since day 1 in BETA I don't think you have as much expierence or dedication to this profession as me.

So if we haven't been here since day 1 of beta then we aren't as experienced or dedicated as you? Thats what you're saying?Involvement in Beta 1 is THE test for whether or not we're as dedicated as you or not?Thats really what you are saying?

If you have been, then hats off to you as well for all the work you have done.

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Umm i know it's a game, and yes i have a lot of fun with it, but there are aspects i think would make the game even more fun if they changed it. There's nothing wrong with expressing that (in facts the devs encourage it on this board. ) and there's nothing wrong with expressing my concerns on the forums which are in part designed to let players come express their concerns

Off on a tangent....

Second of all many Castles of Europe and the pyramids and all that were built as artistic expression, along with usefulness. They also had some purpose to it. Da Vinci designed the chateux Chamboard's double helix staircase. It was a great artistic design (and the very first known use of a double helix), but it also served to allow the kings mistress to go down the stairs without being seen by the queen coming up them. The pyramids were made to bury kings, but they were also built extravegant so the kings could always be remembered. Castles were a way for Lords of the land to show thier wealth and power, and many times they felt a more extravagent looking castle would raise their status, so they hired architects to Artistically design great castles and towers in the castles. The architects had to work under the parameters of defense and stuff, but the design was still an art.

So would i say that an architect should design something that is artistic and also useful in the context of what it's being built as.

And yes you do have to go up the engineering tree to get all those crafting professions. Then you get more specialized after you recieve your basic education, kinda like going to school and taking basic engineering courses then specilizing in mechanical, electricl, computer, civil, chemical, or other types of engineering.

And one last thing, being in this game and being an Architect for longer than me doesn't mean you are the all-knowing hands down authority on the architect profession, even if you are one in real life. Have i had as much experience or "dedication" as you to this profession? no probably not, my dedication is focused on my Physics Master's Degree,and then it will be on my PhD. This game i play for fun and to unwind. I have never assumed to know more than you or created more than you or be better than you at architect in any way shape or form. But i do feel that being an Architect (of any skill level, newbs are allowed to post here too) gives me (or any arch) the right to come onto this board and expess my concerns in a civilized matter, i also feel like my knowledge of the profession validates my concerns. People may not agree with them, but they should at least respect them. I have never though of you as a second rate architect, but apperently you are concerned about it even though it was never brought up on anyone's post on this thread, until you brought it up.

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OkarasBargainBasement wrote:

4 words...IT IS A GAME!

Is a game not meant for fun and entertainment, so once you start to complain how is that fun and entertaining.If you are ever NOT satisfied with an aspect of a game how can that be fun or entertaining. The point of playing a game is for fun, but what is fun about listening to people whine.

I ask myself that same question everytime you post. One thing that you might keep in mind. When you structure a sentence to end as a question, you need to use a question mark. It looks just like this ? you will find it located on your keyboard.

And don't ever assume you created anything more then I did with this profession. I have been an architect from launch day and day 1 of BETA...longer then most of you. I have earned my money through competition, low prices, marleting, and reputation on my server. I have just as much repeat business now as I did a year ago. So I don't need anything else, because if your good at what you do, exisiting members will recommend new members to their guilds and cities to you. So don't even think about calling me second rate. I have done this longer and probably better then most. So unless you have been on since day 1 in BETA I don't think you have as much expierence or dedication to this profession as me. If you have been, then hats off to you as well for all the work you have done.

Vanity is one of the 7 deadly sins. You sure seem to be full of it.

In the words of the great Ben Franklin. "Pride that dines on vanity, sups on contempt."

And in real life FYI, Engineers build and design towers and seige machines. Architects are designers and artists. Thats why architects get their degrees in the colleges of design not the colleges of engineering. And architect did not design the great pyramids of the castles of old europe...engineers designed them. Those were technical masterpieces...architects design artistic masterpieces.Architects design floor plans and space, engineers come up with the ways to build and make these things. And yes its splitting words and professions. But your asking for things and argueing that architects should have these things when they are not part of that profession. And one more thing, you do have to go up the engineering tree to get to architect, but you have to do the same tree for weaponsmith, droid engineer, and shipwright...guess the GAME isn't very realistic, but then again IT IS A GAME.

Wow, this is a game? I would have never guess that. Amazing! Thank you for your enlightenment.

Notice how I used the question mark and the end of the first sentence above. And you have a college degree? Wow - they give those out to anyone these days.

Now, go design a new dog house for my puppy.

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