Architect Archive

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faarsider wrote:

Dvnce wrote:

Cross server Lot Swaps Need Addressed.. Those who wish to partner up with other LIVE players to build a business and expand Cannot Compete with those that have 100's of Ghost Owned Harvesters that dont have to support multiple players and thus have an operating cost that is a fraction of groups of players working together.. ( the Easiest Way to address this without hinduring too many peoples play would be to put factories and harvesters into a commercial Class and only allow each player to be admin on 10 commercial structure)

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/agree

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Message Edited by Cafa on 05-16-2005 01:29 PM

Great post. Two thoughts.

1. What is the best way we can help you to "get our voices heard?" It is somewhat of a mystery how our feedback on the boardsis cataloged, prioritized, and factored in the DEVsdecision making process.

Message Edited by TK42I on 05-16-2005 10:24 PM

1.New craftable furniture and nicknacks(not loot or quest items).

2.When clicking an inventory item we should have a buttonon the radial dial that says "loadfactory". It takes a long timetrying to drag an item intoa factory on a laggy day.

3. A means of changing flooring and wall stylesin homes. Of course an interior designer should be able to do this.

4. Furniture and nicknack schematics should make 5 or 10 itemsnot 1.

5. Faction furniture and buildingsshould be handed out as schematics that only architects with the right faction standing can craft. It should also allow us to gain faction points.

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Dvnce wrote:

Ok.. We have seen alot of Changes to our game.. Most of them We needed to see for the viablitly of SWG. However almost all have been to benifit only 1 Playstyle.

( fighting ).

Fighting is the only playstyle insofar as SOE is concerned. I couldn't believe how goodof a job they'd done originally in creating others, but that was the original game; sadly, those innovative designers are long gone and now we have the usual SOE hacks.

This is not bad and I am not Complaining. As long as we Identify and Accept the Urgent Need to Focus on the Other Playstyle All of these changes that have been made will not be in vain.

There is no other playstyle. Your sad devotion to that ancient creed... blah blah blah.

The Fighting Playstyle has had their game Improved 10 fold.

Uh.... Ok. As a TKA, I used to be able to walk out to my factories, fully armored, and if a sevort (or two or three)took exception to my presence, "WOH-PAH!" End of problem. Sometimes I might have to actually click an attack. Challenge? I wasn't interested in challenge from the equivilent of a kobold, I was interested in inserting a schematic and starting a factory run.Silly to have a martial artist in comp? Yes. In need of some fixing? Yes. In need of the CU....Now, if one sevort attacks me, I have to stop everything else to deal with it, if two attack me, I am going to be forced to take shelter in my house -- while the sevort remains aggroed because I can't peace out. Where is the improvement in that?

Time sinks have been addressed. The Uniqueness of Battle and the Complexity of Hunting have been addressed. The Viability of Most Combat Professions having a Unique and Vital role In Combat have been addressed. The Need to Group and Rely on others to accomplish a task has been encreased. All of these elements are important and needed to happen.

Ok, forget it.I'm just going to write off this entire first paragraph as a dev suckup, and forget it ever happened.

But.. For the Social ( crafter/entertainer ) Playstyle Not many of the changes were a benifit. None of Our timesinks were really Addressed at all. Some of the Waits that were shortened were not that Big of A deal to the Social Player because they mostly socialized during those waits. The Time sinks specifically targeting Vendors and the Commerce wasnt that much of an Issue for Most Social Players because they had ALREADY established relationships with people that could provide the items they needed thus not having a hard time or as a hard time to find things.. Grouping.. The social player does not need to be Forced to group because.. well.. they naturally seek out groups anyway..

Yeah, I remember forming those elite crafting groups as we all searched in vain for the legendary 100% OMU. CRAFTERS MOSTLY AREN'T A SOCIAL CLASS. I can count the number of times I've teamed up to clear a harvester field without taking off my shoes. And that includes when I was a sucky rifleman in Mabariinstead of a TKA in Comp.

Whats My Point..? Well Not to gripe or complain I am fine with most of the changes that have happened recently, However now that the CU is out and the new Expansion is out. It needs to be pointed out that the Majority of the Attention being given to this game as been for the benifit of One Playstyle..( Which is fine that aspect of the game needed it desperatly) and It really is Urgent to either give some focus or at the minimum start discussing what attention will be given to the Social Playstyle.

You are totallyin a fantasy world by this point Dvnce. I don't say that to be insulting (rude maybe, I admit). I understand that you're going down swinging, and I salute you for it. But you ARE going down, like the captain that refuses to abandon his ship. First off, the CU is not out of the way, nor is the Expansion. In typical SOE fashion, they will now have to spend MONTHS fixing the utter botch they've made of the game. I have no doubt that the "endgame" of ROTW is alsonot yet complete--that is SOP for SOE. They've already removed most of the crafters & social players with their CU blunder, now they have to pander to the few remaining combat players (/sarcasm on --and that horde of new players that are sure to descend on the game with the new movie being out-- /sarcasm off). They aren't going to have time for crafters and social gamers; we're going to be mostly replaced by loot and NPC vendors in the long run anyway.

(snip some fever dreams)

At the summit we discussed a timeline of issues to be addressed... Are we still on that track?

(Hysterical laughter)

Here are the Architect Core Concerns ( These pretty much have not changed for Over a year.. )

1) Our Time Sinks need to be addressed

2) The Viability of our Profession needs to be addressed

3) Our Role in the GCW needs to be addressed

4) Furniture Colorization needs to be addressed

5) The Efforts of our Profession needs to be addressed

1) Our Time Sinks Need Addressed.

"We have discussed some possible methods of doing this and will be addressing this after (insert new excuse here every two months)." -- The Management

2) The Viability of our Profession Need Addressed.

"We have discussed some possible methods of doing this and will be addressing this after (insert new excuse here every two months)." -- The Management

3) Our Role in the GCW needs to be Addressed.

"We have discussed some possible methods of doing this and will be addressing this after (insert new excuse here every two months)." -- The Management

4) Furniture Colorization needs to be Addressed

"We have discussed some possible methods of doing this and will be addressing this after (insert new excuse here every two months). The ball is rolling" -- The Management

5) The Efforts of Our Profession Needs to be Addressed.

"We have discussed some possible methods of doing this, but since our super-secret plan is to eliminate most crafters by making them irrelevant and then makethem all zero-point cost professions, there is no reason towaste time on this. Once we've annoyed you die-hard "social" types into finally giving up (what is wrong with you people?), we can resume making a nice simple game thatdoesn't have all theseweird crafting and social aspects thatwe can neither understand nor balance properly. After all,ourplan isto allow all players the opportunity to enjoy being members of a combat class and have crafting abilities. Think of the freedom and opporutnities for increased play styles!

The artificially limited horizons of SWG to date have been completely out of step with every otherMMORPG that we copy from, and our little pinheads just don't understand why players would do anything in a game besides team up with other people to fight. Our designers and staff grew up playing Duke Nukem, Doom, and Battletech, and nobody ever plays mecha repairmen or gunsmiths in any of those. Anyone that wasn't shooting a gun in the game,was munchies or crunchies for everything else (well, ok, DN3D had topless dancers, but we got Twi'leks! Pwn!)

Therefore, we will be addressing this after (insert new excuse here every two months)." -- The Management

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The only reason I'm even here to kvetch is that I renewed justto hand stuff over to a friend who is keeping one of his accounts. And I hate spending even that much on SOE.

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Crimsonsplat wrote:
No offense, but why are you wasting your time? And what have you been smoking?

Cause he's our correspondent. This is what he's supposed to do. And this is the right way to do it.

Bashing SOE won't get us anywhere.

...

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I agree with the suggestions, but I would like to point one thing out, the reason all the Devs attention right now is on the Combat arena of the game is, the CU really mucked it up. Combat right now is very buggy, and about 1/3 of the professions are now broke due to bugs. There is months of bug fixes needed to bring the CU up to speed, and I am not blowing smoke.

I have 2 accounts, one pure combat, one pure crafting (Master in Arch, Merch, Artisian). Check out the combat profs forums and the "In Live" forums and see for yourselves. The last thing I want are the Devs messing around with the crafting profs and breaking us with bugs and poor programing like they did the combat profs.

I basicly only play my crafter now. And BTW, the bonus XP days, well over 2/3 of the profs didn't get ANY xp due to bugs in the XP caps, changes in levels and xp requirements, and down time. Trust me, we are better off not being on the Devs radar right now. Besides, the combat profs need all the help they can get right now, because, who else are we going to sell our stuff too?

Oceaf

SOE can't very well worry about the information distributed. Anything in-game is covered by the EULA already. The Law of Unintended Consequences is always a problem, but the downside of doing this should be very minor compared to the gain.

Very nice work, Dvnce. I hope your requests get the attention they deserve.

If I may, I'd like to offer a few minor comments.

1. You're dead-on correct about enough attention having been given to the combat professions. Two years, and still virtually none of the non-combat professions have been treated to anything even remotely resembling the "content" the combat folks have gotten: Geonosian caves, Corellian Corvette, Deathwatch Bunker, Hero of Tatooine quest -- the list goes on.

I don't mind one bit that combat-oriented players get these things. I think that's great. What I want to know is: Where's the similar content for the rest of us who play this game?

2. That said, I'm not sure I'd say that crafters are "social" players. Entertainers, yes; medics/doctors, possibly; but crafters? No, for the most part I'd group crafters with the "Explorer" player type (as noted in Richard Bartle's wonderful essay).

I wouldn't mind seeing crafters have more opportunities to work with other players (Merchants for selling things, other crafters for making complex objects). But crafters need attention not because they're social players, but because they're creative players, and need features in SWG that let them enjoy being creative. (I've got some ideas about that in my Crafting: A Blueprint for the Future thread if you're interested.)

3. If Architects got consumables of some kind, that would be fine... but that doesn't solve the #1 problem, which is that there's no repeat business in the most important product that Architects can make: houses. Why are there only avery few styles of house possible? If it's a technicalissue, why can't it be solved?Not only is the very limited choice in housesbad for consumers (their house looks just like everybody's else's), and bad for the economy (no repeat business), it's bad for Architects (making houses gets boring quickly).

For that reason, rather than getting thrown a small bone in the form of a "house paint kit" or some such thing, I'd much rather see a solution that goes directly to solving all ofthese problems. Accordingly, many months ago Ifloated the idea ofModular Architecture: A Redesign Proposal. I still think it's doable and that it would cure most of what ails us (and I wouldn't mind seeing it mentioned by a Correspondent to other Correspondents, hint-hint ).

4. Your other points about the Architect profession needing to matter more in SWG are not only correct, they can also be said about the other non-combat professions. So please keep on getting these things said!

5. If you ever happen to see KStarfire in the Correspondent forum, please ask him to come visit the Core Systems forum once in a while. We miss him....

--Flatfingers

Message Edited by Flatfingers on 05-19-2005 07:00 PM

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Pawlin wrote:

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Crimsonsplat wrote:
No offense, but why are you wasting your time? And what have you been smoking?

Cause he's our correspondent. This is what he's supposed to do. And this is the right way to do it.

Bashing SOE won't get us anywhere.

...

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No, but it was nice finally being able to vent my speen after being muzzled for two weeks. SOE wasn't even allowing existing, paid accounts to register and comment here. You could register... but the board would not accept the login.

Dvnce is welcome to try, but I am (back) here *only* to give stuff to a friend, and I have logged in exactly ONCE to do it. One more time and I'm done.

I'm sure a few people are going "fine, so LEAVE already!" So ok,see you guys in Vanguard, come 2006. Look for an Elizoron some server or another... I'll be grumpy there too, I don't doubt.

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Turkana wrote:

Flatfingers wrote:

2. That said, I'm not sure I'd say that crafters are "social" players. Entertainers, yes; medics/doctors, possibly; but crafters? No, for the most part I'd group crafters with the "Explorer" player type.

/applaud;

/agree

I hearily believe in what has been said here. I'd have to admit that I, too, fail to see where Crafters are social players. With the result of the CU, I'm more inclined to suggest that combatants are now more "sociable" as SOE has modified the game to promote "group combat."

But for the most part, Crafters spend the majority of their time working alone with their factories, tools, and crafting stations. I don't need someone to hold myhand while I'm cranking out harvestors or furniture. But we are creative players as Flatfingers has suggested. I believe that what our professions need are changes which reflect our creative/artistic talents.

I'm not saying that I disagree with any of Dvnce's ideas. I applaud his suggestions and I applaud his willingness to represent our concerns while trying to appeal to the Devs. I for one agree that abandoned buildings and condemned harvestors need to be purged. Is there any reason why the Devs cannot establish a rule which automatically removes these fixtures from the game? Within my player city, there are dozens of buildings with character names that are no longer in the game.

I also believe in adding some sense of decay formulas to our products. I know Master Tailors are also crying out for the same incentive. We experience very little repeat business. Once we sell a deed to a house, it's unlikely we'll ever see that player again unless he wants to upgrade for whatever reason. Once we sell furniture, that furniture is going to last indefinitely or until the player decides to redecorate.

It's not like Master Weaponsmiths or Master Armorsmiths who can rely on "damage" to bring about repeat business. Even though Tailored items do deteriorate over time, their physical appearance doesn't change and players are still capable of wearing those same items. As naive as this sounds, I was shocked to hear that clothing items which have been modified with CA's never lose their power, even if the items have decayed.

I know this isn't the Tailor's forum and I'm not one myself. I simply agree that changes do need to be addressed for Crafters as a whole.

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But this is not the sum of what he said. Dvnce wants to impose a limit on the number of structures we can be made admin on. Speaking as the head of my guild's economic development, this would be a sincere blow to what's left of that development by making combat peopledonating lots suddenly move schematics and resources around, which they do not want to do.

I'm firmly for blowing up ever damned harvestor condemed out there. I could care less about cross-lot harvestors. Making the people I get lots from for storage or factories suddenly have to become defacto crafters when they do not wish to is unfair to economic growth, IMO.

Fivo Asia

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Cafa wrote:

...I'm firmly for blowing up ever damned harvestor condemed out there. I could care less about cross-lot harvestors. Making the people I get lots from for storage or factories suddenly have to become defacto crafters when they do not wish to is unfair to economic growth, IMO.

Fivo Asia

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