Architect Archive
Thread: The Architect's Creed
BT-Trajan
Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:55 am
#14
/sign
i wish there was something in there about our addiction to ore.
GilGalvanti
Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:40 am
#16
I agree....theres lots of things to do as architect....but i dont see the point of being a fighting proffession. All u do is get rich by running missions over and over...then once u buy armor and stuff...u have nothing to do with it....i dont see the point of fighting profs.
honford
Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:52 am
#18
/sign
Borgie Wombatkin
Master Architect/Artisan/Merchant
Lowca
Honford Wombatkin
Master Doctor/Swords
Lowca
Cherokaa
Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:39 pm
#19
Thanks for the response, folks. My challenge, to those of you who have "signed" this, would be to try and live by it to the best of your ability. There are some people who view Architects with suspicion and balk at reasonable (as in anywhere from 2.5-4cpu) prices. I made a chance cube with the Creed "inscribed" on it and keep it within sight of my work area. This serves as a concrete reminder of the values I've chosen to uphold in my business, as well a reminder to my customers that I'm not in it all for myself and that I care about their satisfaction as much as I do my own. I urge the rest of you to do something similar so that you'll have a tangible reminder of this creed.
ZenDragonMLS
Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:31 am
#21
I think that it is good. The "honesty to customers" is critical.
However, I have a problem with these two lines:
=================================
- I create structures and furniture and sell them for a fair price.
- I will not engage in unfair price fixing or price gouging.
=================================
The reason for my concern is that those two lines have four concepts, and two of them are fuzzy and depend on a point of view.
Here's my dissection:
1. I create structures and furniture - absolutely agree - good statement
2. sell them for a fair price - I agree, just as I'm sure every one else agrees - however, we have all seen two architects down the street from one another, each of who believes that they are selling for a "fair price", engage in heated words that the "other guy"'s prices are "unfair".
3. I will not engage in "unfair" price fixing - I would argue that you should remove the word "unfair" from that - I think that "price fixing" (i.e., getting a group of architects together to agree on some set prices) is in general a bad thing, but it is also pretty unlikely to happen
- without the "unfair" word then I think it's a good statement
4. "price gouging" - this is not only a term grounded in a particular point of view, but it is inflamitory also. Again, you are an architect down the street and look on my vendor. You make note of the prices I charge and say "Well, you aren't living by the Architect's Creed" because you are price gouging". What you mean to say is "you are getting more profit than *I* think you should".
My basic point is that we should produce a product that provides value to our customers and be honest and helpful to them. Casting judgements about pricing into the creed doesn't provide any real value.
However, I have a problem with these two lines:
=================================
- I create structures and furniture and sell them for a fair price.
- I will not engage in unfair price fixing or price gouging.
=================================
The reason for my concern is that those two lines have four concepts, and two of them are fuzzy and depend on a point of view.
Here's my dissection:
1. I create structures and furniture - absolutely agree - good statement
2. sell them for a fair price - I agree, just as I'm sure every one else agrees - however, we have all seen two architects down the street from one another, each of who believes that they are selling for a "fair price", engage in heated words that the "other guy"'s prices are "unfair".
3. I will not engage in "unfair" price fixing - I would argue that you should remove the word "unfair" from that - I think that "price fixing" (i.e., getting a group of architects together to agree on some set prices) is in general a bad thing, but it is also pretty unlikely to happen
- without the "unfair" word then I think it's a good statement4. "price gouging" - this is not only a term grounded in a particular point of view, but it is inflamitory also. Again, you are an architect down the street and look on my vendor. You make note of the prices I charge and say "Well, you aren't living by the Architect's Creed" because you are price gouging". What you mean to say is "you are getting more profit than *I* think you should".
My basic point is that we should produce a product that provides value to our customers and be honest and helpful to them. Casting judgements about pricing into the creed doesn't provide any real value.
Pawlin
Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:20 am
#22
Good points Zen.
I think that talking about "fair" prices doesn't hurt. Its just a way of saying we'll have "good" prices. Each of us have to decide for ourselves if a price is "fair" or not and that is very much up to the specific situation given market conditions for the server economy in question. I think we all agree that "fair" is good so agreeing to "fair" doesn't hurt.
I could see removing mention of "gouging" though as it is really just another way of saying "unfair".
Also while it does say no gouging it does NOT have the corresponding opposite of "no undercutting", so it could be seen as "taking sides" in the eternal architect pricing debate between the dirty undercutters and the evil gougers.
Cherokaa
Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:16 am
#23
ZenDragonMLS wrote:
I think that it is good. The "honesty to customers" is critical.
However, I have a problem with these two lines:
=================================
- I create structures and furniture and sell them for a fair price.
- I will not engage in unfair price fixing or price gouging.
=================================
The reason for my concern is that those two lines have four concepts, and two of them are fuzzy and depend on a point of view.
Here's my dissection:
1. I create structures and furniture - absolutely agree - good statement
2. sell them for a fair price - I agree, just as I'm sure every one else agrees - however, we have all seen two architects down the street from one another, each of who believes that they are selling for a "fair price", engage in heated words that the "other guy"'s prices are "unfair".
3. I will not engage in "unfair" price fixing - I would argue that you should remove the word "unfair" from that - I think that "price fixing" (i.e., getting a group of architects together to agree on some set prices) is in general a bad thing, but it is also pretty unlikely to happen
4. "price gouging" - this is not only a term grounded in a particular point of view, but it is inflamitory also. Again, you are an architect down the street and look on my vendor. You make note of the prices I charge and say "Well, you aren't living by the Architect's Creed" because you are price gouging". What you mean to say is "you are getting more profit than *I* think you should".
My basic point is that we should produce a product that provides value to our customers and be honest and helpful to them. Casting judgements about pricing into the creed doesn't provide any real value.
First off, I want to thank you for reading this through and through. It helps knowing that my work is being read and analyzed by people rather than just being blown through and no one paying attention to what I wrote.
As for the "fair price" thing. I left that intentionally vague as a "fair price" tends to vary from one server to another. For example, I play on both Starsider and Flurry. Starsider is notorious for having an extremely inflated economy and thus, the prices there are a bit more than what I'm accustomed to seeing on Flurry. I guess if you want a concrete definition of a "fair" price, you really can't go wrong with anything ranging from 3-5 cpu. The only real exception, IMO, to that point would be orders where someone wants something ASAP and requests that you drop what you're doing and get it done. Not only is it a huge inconvenience for you, but you're also having to put the rest of your customers on the back burner while you get an order filled for someone who wanted, say 17 heavy mineral harvs yesterday.
Price fixing - My main goal with this statement was to allow prices to be fair, competitive, and allow for some diversity in the market. I'm more of a free market type of person and I favor minimal intervention by outside forces into the market. This allows for fluidity as well as healthy competition. Think of it this way: If every Architect on your server charged 10k for any type of small house, what incentive would there be for your average player to buy a house from you when they could go to theArchitect 200m away and get one from her? Your location shouldn't screw over your business, yes, it does play a part, but it shouldn't be the death blow to your business. If you can get someone into your shop and charge 11k for the same type of house and offer something else in return (some kind of promo or something which will get people to spend the extra 1k and still feel like they're getting a good deal) then go for it. The many shouldn't be constrained by the will of the few. That also applies to this creed as well. If you don't like it, then don't adhere to it. It's not meant to be the be all and end all of an Architect, but rather guidelines for conducting oneself in an ethical manner.
This brings us to price gouging. This probably won't come up all too often as the Architecture market is fairly stable, but it does have the potential for price gouging. If there is a huge upswing in demand for a particular item (metal chairs for example) we should adjust our prices accordingly to adjust for the demand, but it shouldn't get to the point where we're charging 10k for a metal chair just because of the demand. THAT is the kind of price gouging I'm looking to avoid.
A lot of the statements I made weren't intended to be casting judgement on the way some of us price things, rather, I was aiming to define honest business practices without having to go too far into detail to account for the minutae of variations from one server to another under various circumstances. Hope this helps.
ZenDragonMLS
Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:36 am
#24
Cherokaa wrote:This brings us to price gouging. This probably won't come up all too often as the Architecture market is fairly stable, but it does have the potential for price gouging. If there is a huge upswing in demand for a particular item (metal chairs for example) we should adjust our prices accordingly to adjust for the demand, but it shouldn't get to the point where we're charging 10k for a metal chair just because of the demand. THAT is the kind of price gouging I'm looking to avoid.A lot of the statements I made weren't intended to be casting judgement on the way some of us price things, rather, I was aiming to define honest business practices without having to go too far into detail to account for the minutae of variations from one server to another under various circumstances. Hope this helps.
You have exactly made my point. I'm ok with the vague "fair price". However, right in the creed you have a statement about "price gouging" and you give an example.
Since the laws about supply and demand apply inside the game just like any other economic system, if the *demand* for metal chairs goes through the roof, I see absolutely no problem in charging 10K for them.
Someone made a comment here once and I think (hope) that Pawlin captured it. It went something like "if a customer is willing to pay a price for something, then that price is not too high".
"Price gouging" and "undercutting" are *moral judgements* based on MY personal value system - they say nothing at all about any true value in the marketplace.
Pawlin
Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:40 am
#25
Honestly I think giving specific prices to define what is "fair" does not help. Because now everyone can find some fault with it unless they happen to fall within that range. And now the boundaries are defined to split us into 3 groups: fair, undercutters and gougers.
Pawlin
Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:41 am
#26
ZenDragonMLS wrote:
...Someone made a comment here once and I think (hope) that Pawlin captured it. It went something like "if a customer is willing to pay a price for something, then that price is not too high".
...
I have a macro:
Specific prices that you choose are going to be very server dependent. No price is too high if your customers will gladly pay it and no price is too low if you make a good enough profit.