Architect Archive
Thread: I can't believe architects are selling these 'experimented' harvesters right now...
Keh, if you bothered to read the post that our fellow Ahazian Architect wrote about them being like prenerf probots, he said that if for any reason the Devs make the higher rate harvs go back to a lower number than he will refund EVERYONE the difference.
This is NOT unethical in any way, shape, or form. Many of us are providing harvesters that harvest almost double what they used to before the patch. And on top of that we are offering "insurance" that IF the Devs nerf them then the people who bought them will get their money back for the difference. A heavy mineral harvester that gets 11, you better believe we are gonna charge more for those.
If you choose to stay out of selling these then please keep your negative comments about reliable architects to yourself.
Last night someone placed an order with me for 10 heavy mineral Harvesters. I priced them the same as pre-patch prices, because experimentation is still unknown and untested. However, I did experiment on each of them, and several of them hit the 9 extraction rate with the materials I had on hand. I explained to the guy this was a bonus, and something that may be nerfed or removed from the game in the near future. Instead of expecting the high extraction rate as the norm, I made it sound like it was the nice exception to the rule. Even though he knew it might not last, he tipped me something extra for the experimented harvesters.
I am not going to stop selling my stuff while this stuff gets tested. I also will NOT deceive my customers, and make sure they understand right up front what they are getting, how good it is and to make sure they know it may not last...... or it might.
Praolith
DrTerror,
I never mentioned names and I stayed well away from the server posts today.
I think it's good that you're offering this money back if they're nerfed. If I didn't make a fuss yesterday, would this rebate/guarantee have been in today? (it wasn't in yesterday's post, a possible change was hardly mentioned)
I know you're makingcranking harvesters. You and Sev can't be matched for stocked volume. You're great (and arguably the server's most powerful) architects.I just find it crazy that you're pushing these when you know the change is tomorrow or the next day.
I couldargue that this is exploitation because
- it's a known bug/design problem addressed by the devs
- an upcoming change was announced
- the rates are too high and the dev's don't want them up there
- you've compared them toprobots (which were nerfed due to being overpowered)
- you're actively trying to avoid a global change to bring them inline with game balance
Even if you're successful at avoiding a nerf, you're injuringthe game by giving some players an advantage that they shouldn't have.
This is a classic example of the 'exploit early, exploit often' mentality.
It's not just possible fleecing of customers; it's harmful to all who harvest resources.
If you are referring to my rate 11 mineral harvester announement yesterday, I think you misread a large portion of the post.
- The pre-nerf comment was a completely hypothetical statement to divulge that we did not know yet if we could continue making these, and was clearly stated as such in the post, which you would perhaps have seen and/or understood had you not been in such a rush to come here and cry about it. Dropping the phrase as if I was somehow using that comment to justify price in any way is not only out of context, you have used it in a manner that is either an intentional or careless misrepresentation of my comments. That you did not mention my name only makes it more sad than offensive, since it's a pretty clear attempt just to get some sympathy for your indignation and support for your arguments.
- The selling price of harvesters -- harvesters which most architects cannot make yet -- is due to a combination of massive expense and value. Buy or find the skill items and then try to do something like that yourself and perhaps you'll have a better perspective to comment. At the very least it'll sound a lot less like sour grapes.
- The anti-nerf guarantee was there as soon as the question was asked, within minutes of the original posting - perhaps you missed it.
- I don't even know (nor, as of now, care) who you are, so claiming credit for inciting my guarantee, as if I needed someone to convince me to take care of my own customers, is quite the sacrificial hero act, don't you think?
- You also apparently missed the fact that the only harvester stated to be out of balance is the fusion gen, so calling anyone an exploiter is based on the selling of mineral harvesters is unsupportable and insulting.
In other words, wrong, wrong, wrong, and yeah, you're commenting on something all of us know is an unknown until it happens, and we have already pointed it out, so.... what was your point again? That's rhetorical, not a request for clarification; I don't care what point you thought you had (or will come up with next). See you in the game.
And for everyone else.... *wave*
Kerico wrote:The whole extraction rate thing is still in flux.
We know harvester rates are going to be changed (and certainly lowered, drastically in some cases.)
High-rate deeds/harvesters may be rolled back to old values (I have a feeling they will be), and yet some people are selling harvesters telling people they're going to be unchanged. I actually saw a post advertising these will be the next pre-nerf probot!!
This is totally false advertising and reckless marketing. People are paying 2x more for these or more! I can't help but think they'll be angry. They won't just go to another architect; they'll be mad at architects in general.
I'm in the 'not going to sell until the dust settles' camp personally. I think charging extra for something that may be gone tomorrow is completely unethical...
Keh' Icoh - Ahazi
My read on GreenMarine's post was that 11 on a heavy and 8 on a medium would be reasonable. I expect the final numbers to be these or very very close.
First of all he said that mediums could exceed heavies. That would mean at least +4 on experimentation or +1 / 25% experimenation. This is exactly what we are currently seeing today with the mineral extractors. The minerals are also the only extractors that follow GreenMarine's desired model of a light mining unit for medium minerals and a "heavy" mining unit version for heavy mineral extractors. Medium and heavy chems and gases do not currently follow this model and he mentions the fluidic pump by name.
GreenMarine also said he would look at some extractors, specifically fusions were mentioned, due to their huge rates in some cases +16. That is probably what he is talking about in terms of too high, +16 is 4 times what we get from minerals and almost certainly due to change and brought back in like to around +4 or +5.
So my interpretation of his post is not that he thinks "all" extractors are broken and all numbers are gonna be in flux... Rather that he feels some extractors are too high (fusions) and some that are too maybe low (solar storage,gas??), but some, like minerals, are just about right. After all he did not come out and say "It is all screwed up sorry, I am changing it all...". No he picked specific examples of things that will be looked at/modified.
I believe it is entirely reasonable given what is in game and GreenMarines post that the mineral numbers are pretty close to as intended and it is the fusions (too high) and gas (too low???) that are going to change. I mean does +4 really feel crazy to some of you?
If you do not feel comfortable selling I say fine, stockpile high UT steel and ore cause you are gonna need it in any case. Also upgrade some of your own extractors to get the bonus as soon as possible. That way you will be prepared in any case when the final results come down.
Beta, you're making 1 possible error in your argument and one assumption... you assume the low end will not drop at all thus stating that 11 would be the top end which is based on the assumption that +4 will be the top addition....
To be honest I'd like to see a heavy look more like a range of 6-10 or 5-9. mediums would run maybe 3-7... or something along those lines. I also liked someones suggestion that 1/2 points be used to help create more variance in units... as long as experimentation is going in, I like the fact its only 1 part that affects it but we need to keep numbers reasonable for pull rates.
IMHO what's reckelss is the Devs treating SWG as though it was still in Beta.
I think that architects ought to make no promises about what the Devs will do, but there is zero reason not to sell harvs as is. We all know what the risks are, I don't have to talk folks out of buying.
Griswel wrote:
We all know what the risks are
Not so.
I doubt that 1/2 of the architects read this board... far fewer of the consumers even know there is something going on other than new 'uber' harvesters.
There are tons of reasons the dev's would want to keepextraction rates low. Harvester maintenance is the most crucial money sink in the game. Resouce supply and subsequently product supply is the biggest driver in the player economy. Experimation of just changed drastically!
An 11 rate heavy mineral is 157% the old rate! People are collecting +ArchExperimentation boosts and trying to push for 12! (that's 171%).
Also keep in mind we'll be getting 5 more experiment points in a month! Does that mean our current +4 to rate will go to +6? +7?
When have you seen a halfway nerf!?
The whole extraction rate thing is still in flux.
We know harvester rates are going to be changed (andcertainly lowered, drastically in some cases.)
High-rate deeds/harvesters may be rolled back to old values (I have a feeling they will be), and yet some people are selling harvesters telling people they're going to be unchanged. I actually saw a post advertising these will be the next pre-nerf probot!!
This is totally false advertising and reckless marketing. People are paying 2x more for these or more! I can't help but think they'll be angry. They won't just go to another architect; they'll be mad at architects in general.
I'm in the 'not going to sell until the dust settles' camp personally. I think charging extra for something that may be gone tomorrow is completely unethical...
Keh' Icoh - Ahazi