Architect Archive

First off let me say that as of right now I am neither a Master Artisan, nor a master ELite Crafter. However that will change very soon. Therefore on my daily scouring of the forums, I was shocked to see that in the Top 5 list for Artisans, they want harvestors to have certification. With novice artisan and no survey, they want you to use personal extractors only. As you progress up the survey skill tree, then you can use the medium ones. They want Heavy extractors for themselves, and no one else.

The artisans feel they are the welfare crafter, and this will help put money back in their pockets. This makes me laugh, because i believe artisan is a novice profession and not really supposed to be making as much money as the elite crafters that spend more skill points.

Currently the arguments for Certs for Harvestors are as follows:

1. "I need scout to skin animals, so why can a non artisan harvest
resources."
2. "This will help put money back in the pockets that need it, namely
artisan community." I laugh at this one, because artisans will
be in a position to price gouge all customers that want bulk
resources in a timely manner, for they alone can get the most
amount of resources , the quickest.

3. "You have to be certified to use the best weapons, so in all
fairness, you should be certified to use best harvestors."


IF we learned anything from this last image designer update, it's that the developers seem to have an affinity to take "Content" from the larger player base and give it to a small community, instead of developing new content for the profession in need of it. One would think that Space Expansion will yield some new schematics, and a new need for artisans to customize the ships.

If this is allowed to considered, and eventually implemented , i fell one or more of the following will happen.

1. Elite Crafters will now be stuck with medium harvestors, unless
the spend skillpoints on Master Artisan. Kiss your combat skill
bye.
2. For those elite crafters that stick to medium harvestors, they
will no longer be able to be self sufficient in getting resources
They will have to tighten their supply and make less items,
and thereby raise their prices. Or they may contract master
artisans to gather their resources, but again this will add to
cost of items.
3. Master artisans will rule the resource market, charging whatever
the market will bear, leading to resource shortages. New
crafters will not be able to compete because they are using their
slow personal harvestors.
4. People that are planning on doing Shipwright will now have to
spend more skill points to harvest materials. Leaving less points
for some sort of combat build. I can already forcee a shortage
ships if this happens.

I understand that the most elite crafters don't usually bother with their own resource gathering. THey get guildmates and friends to drop harvestors and they pay them for what they gather. If this change is allowed to happen, using your combat buddies will be a thing of the past, in terms of resource harvesting. Moreover, many also use static lot swaps to get their needed resources. You should be warned that the artisan community wants they ability of static lots through lot trades elminated also.

If this is allowed to happen, then i call for some more changes in the name
of balancing. Feel free to add to this list.
1. Elite ,or best armor should only be worn by people with a master
combat profession.
2. Craftable items, such as harvestors should now be subject to decay
penalites on death. Heck, we have to worry about our armor, why
not let the artisans worry about losing value also. I know this
will not be a popular. IF crafters need protection, they they can
hire combat types to be bodyguards while they make their harvestor
runs.
In conclusion, after all my ranting and raving here I hope that the crafting and not-crafting community will let their voices be heard. DO NOT IMPLEMENT HARVESTOR CERTIFICATIONS. Harvestors are a tool, and i feel that novice artisan should be enough certification for the use of any of them.

Haha, yes I know I'm in bad form by posting in "Your" forum, but I feel this applies to architects very much so. You are the crafters of these items, if this change ever does happen, you will see a very sharp decline in the sale of harvestors because less players will have the ability to use them.


With SOE policy of dividing the forums they are able to make changes that benefit one profession, which also negatively affect the rest of us. Ie - The image designer Debacle with stat migration. Most people didn't know about this change until it happened. So Im trying to just give select professions a heads up.

Since we have no general discussion forums, and no devs ever post in my galaxy forum, this was my only alternative.

*shrug* Doesn't sound so bad to me. Now making Master the only able to use Heavies might be a little extreme tho. But at least some type of certification like Nov Artisan and Nov Medic. Anyone doing it without those skills doesn't really have any business doing it. Yes, it might make things a bit more difficult in the short run, but overall it would make mining more in house and prevent the TK from bringing in an extra 100k worth of credits every week.

We don't need to have the same discussion in every forum for every elite artisan class.

This is not the first time this discussion has spilled over into our forum. If you look down half a page you'll find the other thread.

This is an issue that is being discussed in the Artisan forum. If we want to join that disucssion then we know where to do so... in the Artisan forum.

I don't agree at all.

See it is like this:

I have no artisan and run harvesters - is that wrong?

NO

Why?

Because I have no survey skills and have to pay an artisan to find the high spot for me -and I pay them well.

So saying we need a cert is just dumb.

Ok - I know artisans are saying "we need the cert so people will buy the resources from us".

Well the ONLY people REALLY buying that much resources are the eilte crafting professions (arch, WS, AS, Taylor, Chef, BE, and Doc) and seeing that it only takes 6 to 8 hours to master artisan - why bother?

I mean if I was a master weaponsmith and was given the option of buying crappy resources (marked up about 200%) from a artisan or harvesting them myself (ie requiring me to master artisan) I would OBVIOUSLY master artisan and tell the guy trying to sell me resources to go get stuffed.

Another thing to look at...

MOST artisans (pure newbs) have NO CLUE what are good resources and what are needed by the elite crafting professions - all they DO know is they put fiberplast on the bazzar and it sells. And i swear if I get another tell from an artisan that wants to sell me 10 units of iron for 3k I will scream.

I am a master doc incase you are wondering - finding resources of good quality is VERY hard to do.

Now if you tell me (and other docs) we lose the ability to place harvesters and have to hire an artisan (which we may or may not trust) then you had better belive that I will master artisan to cut out the middle man, havest it myself and jack the cost of buffs up by about 3k for my troubles (and in turn drop artisan when I am done harvesting).

I know this sounds very one sided and not very cheerful - but that's my point.

I can promise you that IF they make it a certification that ALL Artisans are not going to make a dime - because EVERYONE that needs resources will get the cert so they don't have to deal with the headache.

Because if you have 8 hours to spare, you too can master artisan...so why bother dealing with some guy that THINKS he has a good resource (cause a friend of a friend of his read the forums) - when I can go out and get the good stuff myself for a fraction of the cost?

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Opie76 wrote:
Haha, yes I know I'm in bad form by posting in "Your" forum, but I feel this applies to architects very much so.

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Read what you wrote. "Ha ha I know I'm in bad form but I'm going to do it anyway."

Look at this forum - the last guy who posted about this in the Architect forum did so within less than 24 hours ago - I believe it's still on the first page.

You have "alerted" us. Those of us who would like to read and understand the discussion, and take part in it, now have ample opportunity to do so.

*ALL* of the crafting professions (except some medical stuff) are grounded in Artisan. So the *ARTISAN* forum is the right place to discuss this. It is terminally brain-dead to have a disjoint set of discussions in every damn crafter forum here. The discussion should happen in a *single* place so that everyone's voices can be heard.

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Pawlin wrote:

We don't need to have the same discussion in every forum for every elite artisan class.

This is not the first time this discussion has spilled over into our forum. If you look down half a page you'll find the other thread.

This is an issue that is being discussed in the Artisan forum. If we want to join that disucssion then we know where to do so... in the Artisan forum.

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I think this is a good post for our forum. I for one do not read the artisan forums and had no clue of this. Since it would affect me, I am glad he posted here.

Post an "alert" with a link is fine (although we've already been "alerted"). But having the discussion here will serve no purpose whatsoever. There is *much* more power in going to the existing discussion and adding our voices there. Here it's just beating our own gums to hear them flap.

I dont think a cert is wise, but some typeof decay, wind storms cause damage, or something us architects can make a little cash off of. I mean i sell heavies at 120k. I sell 10 thats 1.2 mil to one person, they dont need to return to buy more each time. People have armor break, weapons break, bad slices, etc. and often return to these artisan professions. We dont have that going for us. That 1.2 mil goes a short way, but the millions the other guy can make ggoes much further.

On the other hand it would be nice to have artisans only use harvesters. I mean really if a person doesnt have survey skill they cant use tthe new interplanetary droids. If a person doesnt have medic or doc they cant use medical droids. if a person doesnt have merchant they cant use barker droids. And if us artisans dont have combat skills we cant use any weapons. Why allow someone with no artisan or survey skills be able to dig up millions with our harvesters, only yo yurn around and charge us 5-50cpu. Atleast havin it in artisan hands they could regulate the prices.

I am 60 against anf 40 for. But they need to do something to our profession since they destroyed the holo grinder, our sales are going way down. We dont have anything to sell that others dont already have. We need the edge to be able to make money like armorsmiths and weaponsmiths. WE WORK JUST AS HARD AS THEY DO!

And the one thing i cant stand is a non-crafter (artisan) charging me for something they have no clue on the value. Just because it has a 900 stat they try to get 40cpu.......................

ono

seriously thinking about dropping architect

Message Edited by KRONOS1974 on 05-19-2004 05:17 PM