Architect Archive

Thread: All Terain Harvesters ..

Dvnce
Thu Apr 29, 2004 2:39 pm
#1

It was a close vote on the Mall and the All terrain Harvester.. but in the end the All terrain Harvester won by two votes.. So Our first presentation will be this.. Do not worry .. I am not saying we will get this item ... I am not say this is the only one that we will present.. (we will present many more)


1)... All-Terrain Harvesters..
These would Share the same resource requirements as the current Personal Harvester Plus two new Componants.. Turbo Power Plant ( could be as simple as light power core unit) and Terrain Stabalizing Base (could be as easy as a Structure Module). Max BER at 100% expirementation would be BER11. These would have 1 cell Placement and could be placed on any terrain grade except faces of cliffs or almost vertical drops.. Once placed and activated these will Only operate for 7 days. And only option will be to destroy structure so this can not be redeeded. Maitance would be equal to our medium harvesters now. Hoppers would be equal to personals Now.. This would do two things for us.. Help us tap some of those great veins that always seem to find the mountains.. And Give us a great renewable resource.


this was what we started with ..... Lets refine this idea.. So I can do a nice presentation..


one other element that has been discussed was making one use Platforms that would allow existing harves to have the placement flexability .... ( this would be fine but would still not let us tap into the player that will only harvest resources once because of the rarity of a spawn and then flood the market with there used harves on the market)


This first one is going a little slower but I think I will be able to work out the bugs for the next ones to go alot more smoother.. but lets take the weekend work out this issue and I will present this on monday ..




Imaka QuHurl

Im Not Dead Yet Careful I bite

Heed the warning

Cherokaa
Thu Apr 29, 2004 3:40 pm
#2

I like the idea of selling add-on platforms for harvs instead of creating a whole new type of harvester. I could easily see myself selling these by the crate andmaking a nice profit as long as they don't require some weird resource which spawns once every 6 months and in a place where one cannot place a harvester. The only restriction I would like to see is that these won't allow placement on sheer surfaces (say a grade of about 75-90 degrees) as a harvester just sticking out the side of some mountain with the giant piston thingy pointing horizontally would just look stupid.




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Cherokaa: Scout/Riflewook/ 12 pt Master Weaponsmith, Starsider.

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Runninglighter
Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:45 pm
#3


I like it just the way you have it Dvnce, but what about the foot print, if its the same same as a medium it really kind of cuts into the whole ideal of placing on rough terian, but then again if it was the size of a personel the whole moutain side would be filled, which may look nice but would not be very pratical IMO.


Maybe some thing in between.





Axid Runninglighter
Chilastra
Master Artisan / Master Architect / Master Merchant
StumanKadir
Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:52 pm
#4

Having hoppers sizes at thePersonal level will essentially make these units unviable. The whole reason to have these units is to mine that normally inaccessible 90%+ spot when all thats available as an alternative is a 70% (for example).


But if the hopper size is such that you will fill it after 2 or 3 days, then the extra travel time/opportunity cost, etc may mean that planting a normal BER13 or 14 on the alternate 70% spot makes more sense (especially taking into account the fact that the harv you placed on the side of the hill will poof after 7 days).


Also, getting 100% on the experimentation is currently impossible so the effective highest rating on these will be BER10. Even though the pricing could be kept low - the resources to build them so that you can experiment that high, will still price them up around 10k mark (rough est. based on a resource conversion cost of say 5cpu) to make. With the cost of normal BER10s going for as low as 15k on some servers, the one use "plant anywhere" harv will soon lose favor once customers work out the cost hit they take each week and then translate that over time when compared to the "plant on flat ground only" harvs that never die.


Having a renewable source of income is great, but if no one buys them then they arent all that renewable (witness vehicles, bio-mounts, candles and lamps).






Stuman Anikadir
Maker of stuff - on hiatis until they work out what they are doing to this game

Will be back once the Crafting Upgrade is announced
Sick of playing with kiddies, come play with the old folks, we are just as gamey as the next person

Pawlin
Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:15 pm
#5






StumanKadir wrote:

...Also, getting 100% on the experimentation is currently impossible so the effective highest rating on these will be BER10....



I don't think Dvnce meant it like that. I was assuming that he just meant max BER = 11.



Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ

Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain


** Please refer to Elyssa's answer
Dvnce
Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:20 pm
#6

footprint would be same as a personal...


If there is money in the maitanence it wont poof. in 7 days It would just not be able to be activated to gather more resources..


as far as the hopper... maybe these can take an additional small storage deviceto justify a larger hopper..


the goal is that we dont want to make a replacement for our normal harvesters.. but we want to create a market for when the plunbum (sp?) Iron with 900 OQ and 900 conductivity hits a server and the only 40% plus vein is in the mountains there is a harvester available for it.. and when everyone and their grandmother wants to mine some of this priceless resources they will buy these instead of buying our mediums for 40k .. mine for 7 days then resell their used harvesters for 15k ..







Imaka QuHurl

Im Not Dead Yet Careful I bite

Heed the warning

Dvnce
Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:22 pm
#7






Pawlin wrote:





StumanKadir wrote:

...Also, getting 100% on the experimentation is currently impossible so the effective highest rating on these will be BER10....




I don't think Dvnce meant it like that. I was assuming that he just meant max BER = 11.





actually I did mean to make them equivilant to the mediums in BER.. but I would be devestated if you all felt that that max BER should be adjusted.. I just want to be careful to not create something that people will buy only these..




Imaka QuHurl

Im Not Dead Yet Careful I bite

Heed the warning

Pawlin
Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:36 pm
#8






Dvnce wrote:





Pawlin wrote:





StumanKadir wrote:

...Also, getting 100% on the experimentation is currently impossible so the effective highest rating on these will be BER10....




I don't think Dvnce meant it like that. I was assuming that he just meant max BER = 11.





actually I did mean to make them equivilant to the mediums in BER.. but I would be devestated if you all felt that that max BER should be adjusted.. I just want to be careful to not create something that people will buy only these..




OK so I guess I assumed wrong. The maxwould beBER 10 under current experimentation rules, correct?







Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ

Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain


** Please refer to Elyssa's answer
ZenDragonMLS
Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:50 pm
#9

Awhile back when we were talking about the ability to place on crappy terrain, someone (I forgot who - I'm sorry) suggested making a "rough terrain kit" as an "add-on". Think of it as a "powerup" for harvesters. The game mechanics and user interface are pretty much already there: the action of dragging a powerup onto an object, the concept that it is a limited lifetime, and as far as the terrain prep goes they already have the logic for when you pitch a scout camp.

So instead of a new harvester type (with yet more / different specs, resource demands, and components), just introduce this rough terrain kit. It obviously wouldn't be used on personals - you can almost put them up anywhere right now. Serious miners and crafters would buy them either when a rare spawn hit, or more likely would buy a crate of them to always have on hand. Some people would use them very sparingly while others might judge it worth their while to use them a lot.

Have them use a mix of junk materials and a little bit of high-end stuff, such that they would use about 500-1000 units of resources and sell for 4-8K perhaps.

When you tear down a "powered-up" harvester, the powerup goes away. Perhaps to avoid them being used on static harvester farms you also have them stop working after so many days (e.g., 15).

This would give us a renewable source of income, benifit all the miners and crafters, and fit within the existing game mechanics.



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StumanKadir
Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:50 pm
#10


Yeah I can see your point Dvnce, but currently you can place a personal in quite a few diverse locations owing to their very small 1x1 footprint. I have seen these things in the strangest of places. The only difference I suppose would be the higher BER rating which would be very handy to have esp when mining rare or unique spawns.


Priced correctly these could be useful, but only if you are talking pricing in the low thousands (sub 3k at least to my mind to make them viable).


But I like ZenDragons idea even more (but think it could be modified to say that you take a performance and maintenance hit on using them).

Message Edited by StumanKadir on 04-30-2004 11:52 AM




Stuman Anikadir
Maker of stuff - on hiatis until they work out what they are doing to this game

Will be back once the Crafting Upgrade is announced
Sick of playing with kiddies, come play with the old folks, we are just as gamey as the next person

Dvnce
Thu Apr 29, 2004 6:49 pm
#11






Pawlin wrote:





actually I did mean to make them equivilant to the mediums in BER.. but I would be devestated if you all felt that that max BER should be adjusted.. I just want to be careful to not create something that people will buy only these..




OK so I guess I assumed wrong. The maxwould beBER 10 under current experimentation rules, correct?









well.. what do you think would be a good BER>? one that would not overshodow our main product... ?




Imaka QuHurl

Im Not Dead Yet Careful I bite

Heed the warning

Kyrien
Thu Apr 29, 2004 6:58 pm
#12

So here we go again...



I WOULD VOTE FOR # 01, However, I don't see them giving us a BER of 11 for a tortal resource cost of 450 units. I realize that you propose to balance this with the fact that the structure only exists for 07 days after wich they are destroyed. To me, this structure, would just appear to be a novely item.


I would propose a "Mining Terrain Leveling Rig" as follows....


1. This structure would create a level area (either like camps or a stilt structure) upon which you could place 01 heavy, 02 medium or 8 personal Harvestors of any type.


2. This structure would cost 01 lot.


4. This structure would cost little to no maintenance (less than a small house).


5. A resource cost of 500 to 1500 units (ore and Metal) and possibly include subcomponents such as Structure units.


6. No exprimentation possible or Effectiveness % would be aplied to the BER of any unit on this structur (ie a BER 10 on a "Mining Terrain Leveling Rig" experimented to 80% would be operating at BER 8).


7. This structure can not be redeed only destroyed.



I beleive this structure would have a better chance of being approved by the Dev's as it provides the benefit of mining on unlevel terrain but still conform to most of the rules governing strutures (lots / maint. etc..).


I also think that player would buy these to get to previously unreachable deposits as they would cost about 2500 to 7500 Credits depending on the Resource Requirements.


Just my 0.02c,


Kyrien
Master Artisan
Master Architect
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LonelyGhost
Thu Apr 29, 2004 7:16 pm
#13

I agree with the others about either a powerup or a "platform". To mine on mountaious terrain it woudl probably have to be a platform, as the graphics for the harvs would all have to be added to to make it so the hidden bottom of the harv reaches all the way down a 60 degree declining slope. A platform could be made with a huge sunken base that would be "tall" enough to reach all the way down that 60 degree surface, and have a buildable spot on top for the requisite harv. I think it should be made for all size harvs, of course. It should be a seperate deed, but not take any lots, and have a fixed lifetime, say 10 days. After 240 hours it poofs along with any harv on top of it. It also poofs when you re-deed the harv. Heck, they could give us a really nicerenewable income with these. And if they let us craft permanent (lifetime of the structure) platforms for homes too, we could start to see cities in some interesting places.



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