CUEmu - Thread Posts

Sotaudi

Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:37 pm

As you may have seen in another thread,in testing is a change to DoTsto make it so that you cannot stack Mindshot1 and Mindshot2. That is bad, but not killer. But it is far worse than just that.

First, the actual nerf is that a player may put on no more thanone bleed per pool. Okay, that does not affect most of us beyond only being able to use our best bleed and not both, but those of us that have taken Swordsman who can presently stack 4 bleeds will also only be able to hit for one after this. That may not directly affect you as a Rifleman without Swordsman, but it is unfair in that, if I am a Rifleman/Pistoleer, I could put two bleeds on the target (Mind and Health), but as a Rifleman/Swordsman who spent the same number of skill points and have the same number of bleeds, I can only put on one bleed. In other words, because Imade a compatible choices with my professions, I lose the use of 3 specials, not justone like mosteveryone else. This same nerf will also hurtbleeds for Carbineer/Pikemen and Pistoleer/Fencers. That is inherently unfair, and fairness is an issue with which all of us should be concerned.

But even that is not the worst of it. The worst of it is that they are making it so that bleeds will count towards XP given. Your first reaction may be that this is good, and in some ways it is, but overall this is a major leveling nerf. Think about it. I just leveled all of Brawler and all of Swordsman using Rifle bleeds to help kill the targets quicker. I hit the target with two rifle bleeds, wait for it to aggro, then attack it with the weapon I was leveling. Especially, early on, the bleed would do far more damage than the weapon I was leveling, but I would get all the XP for the weapon I was leveling because currently bleeds do not count towards the XP given. This was most helpful when leveling Swordsman (i.e., same targeted pool), but it also helps level lower level skills for weapons that do not target the bleeding pool. In the upper levels, it is less useful as you will want to bleed your own targeted pool, but early on, when you need it the most, it is a major help.

Need combat XP? Currently, you can bleed the target and kill it with grenades. Grenades give combat XP, bleeds do not count towards XP given, so bingo, the kill is worth all combat XP.

After this change, neither of those things will be possible. Shoot it witha Rifle bleed, and when the creature dies, you get rifle XP for the bleed damage. That is fine when you are leveling Rifle, but when you want to use your hard earned rifle skills to level other weapons or when you get to 4 4 4 3 and need combat XP, forget it. The bleed will count towards Rifle.

This affects us all of us equally. You cannot use bleeds from other weapons to level Rifle, and you cannot use rifle to level other weapons. In fact, even if the weapon affects the same pool, you can not use it to help level another weapon type (i.e., Rifle and 2H Sword, Carbine and Polearms, or Pistols and 1H Weapons).

We need to very vocally protest this change as a game breaker for many people, peoplewho cannot spend hours on end trying to gain XP for the weapons they are leveling.

Sotaudi Crestlighter
Master Rifleman / Master Combat Medic
"The Physician's Pain Reference"

Former Professions
Master Doctor | Master Swordsman | Master Brawler
Master Scout | Ranger

CapnKill

Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:51 pm

#2

Well.. I don't agree with not being able to stack bleeds.. I think that's silly.. it just makes another shot obsolete once you get the next best one.

I like the fact that bleeds go towards XP.. but I'm just a rifleman, so .. it obviuosly suits me just fine.

I think the bleed to one health and toss a grenade for combat xp was more of an exploit then by design.. so I don't really see them ever bending on that one.

Jeisyn

Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:52 pm

#3

I was thinking about this last night as well, sotaudi..

I leveled fencer and TKA with my rifle bleeds - it would have taken FAR longer with the new setup.

Teras Kasi doesn't even have a bleed to help them - that's a brutal profession to level novice/early boxes - no dmg, no bleeds, no accuracy..etc.

hopefully they rethink this one...

Col. Jeisyn Blackwell

Rebel Alliance

-RECON-

CapnKill

Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:16 pm

#4

So wait... what I understood was that Bleeds won't stick from the same person... but if person A , and person B both apply Mind 2, then as I understand it, those bleeds will stack. Can anyone confirm or .. disproove this?

UWSkeletor

Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:41 pm

#5

CapnKill wrote:
So wait... what I understood was that Bleeds won't stick from the same person... but if person A , and person B both apply Mind 2, then as I understand it, those bleeds will stack. Can anyone confirm or .. disproove this?

This is what is written:

DoT stacking has been changed so that each player attacking a target can only have one fire dot, one health bleed, one action bleed and one mind bleed.

Now, it doesn't specifically say that each "mob" can only have one mind bleed, etc., but since that is how it works now I assume it will be the same way. In other words, currently if two riflemen hit Mob A with mindbleed2, only the highest one will stick, not 2 bleeds. I assume this will be exactly the same, but who knows for sure, since the wording is not exactly clear on it.

_________________________________________________________
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Skel Etor
Valcyn
Master Sharpshooter

Kordith

Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:45 pm

#6

No, they won't stack. However, if person B should hit for more damage with his mindShot2 then the bleed damage will be increased to that amount instead. The bleed timer will not reset thou.

-------------------------------------------------------
I felt a great disturbance in the air, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in anger and were suddenly nerfed.

DarthIguana

Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:06 pm

#7

"Your first reaction may be that this is good, and in some ways it is, but overall this is a major leveling nerf. Think about it. I just leveled all of Brawler and all of Swordsman using Rifle bleeds to help kill the targets quicker. I hit the target with two rifle bleeds, wait for it to aggro, then attack it with the weapon I was leveling."

Sorry Sotaudi, but my second and thrid reactions are all "this is good" too. If you bleed a critter with a rifle, the XP should be rifle XP. The tactic that many people including yourself have been using is taking advantage of a loophole in the combat system. I hit a critter with two big rifle shots and a couple of little VK pokes and get a ton of XP in unarmed fighting? It doesn't make any sense to anyone who looks at it logically and they're fixing the loophole so it performs as it should based on common sense assumptions.

Chris

~ Liavuss Mekka of Chilastra ~

Jeisyn

Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:11 pm

#8

hmm. perhaps i've been spoiled by the non-xp stacking bleeds for too long.

could be a good thing...

however, i still feel that bleeds should stack. whats the point of MS1 when you have MS2?

Col. Jeisyn Blackwell

Rebel Alliance

-RECON-

Tobs9

Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:25 pm

#9

Jeisyn wrote:

hmm. perhaps i've been spoiled by the non-xp stacking bleeds for too long.

could be a good thing...

however, i still feel that bleeds should stack. whats the point of MS1 when you have MS2?

what is the point of overcharge 1 if you have overcharge 2? what is point of head shot 1 if you have head shot 2? what is point of head shot 2 if you have head shot 3?

its simply a more advanced skill that does more damage. head shot 1 is basically obsolete when you have 2 or 3. sameshould gofor bleeds.

Icemann......"Figured it out yet? Who the best pilot is."

Miramar Naval Air Station (Fightertown, USA)

Sotaudi

Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:36 pm

#10

I do not know. The wording seems pretty clear to me, "each player attacking a target can only have one fire dot, one health bleed, one action bleed and one mind bleed." Why say, "each player attacking a target" if it were not to be possible for more than one player to put a bleed on the same pool on the same target after this.

Think about it. One of the changes they are proposing, and my complaint in this thread, is that they are going to start counting bleeds towards XP. As is, if two riflemen shoot a target with Mindshot2 only the highest damage one counts. Currently, no big deal. All the bleed does is make it easier to kill the creature, so it does not matter if someone beats you out and puts a better bleed on it. It just makes everyone's life, except the target's,easier. However, if they make the change so that bleeds count towards XP, then the person with the lower bleed gets no XP. One fair way to handle this would be to let both people get the bleed, but then that brings up some other issues.

If they are going to allow multiple people to get bleeds on the same pool because they are now giving XP for the bleed, they cannot have 14 people putting on 2 to 4 bleeds per pool. That would quickly get out of hand and make things even easier to kill. Solution: limit the number of bleeds an individual can put on any one pool.

Thus, given that they are looking to make bleeds count towards XP, it makes sense that they would have to open it up to allow multiple bleeds of the same type from different players to be puton a creature by different players.

Sotaudi Crestlighter
Master Rifleman / Master Combat Medic
"The Physician's Pain Reference"

Former Professions
Master Doctor | Master Swordsman | Master Brawler
Master Scout | Ranger

CapnKill

Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:31 pm

#11

The devs really need to clarify their statements a bit better... I won't even get started on that whole Jedi path BS thing.. anyway..

I think if you spend all the skill points to get two bleeds, they should stack. You got player A w/ only mind 1. he gets a lucky roll and does more damaged then your Mind 2. Now if you .. who spent more skill points can stack 1 and 2 then you'll never loose to someone that only has mind 1. That's your reward

FicoFeafip

Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:30 pm

#12

Ever grouped with a Commando? ....Hehe, who am I kidding? Commandos are everywhere.

Anyway, picture this, aCommando and a group are out hunting, they run across a group of mobs, the commando immediately applies fire DoT to all creatures (like they always do....). The Group shoots pretty randomly and quickly kills maybe 1 or 2 of the mobs with concentrated fire. All creatures die a bit later from the flame DoT and the commando takesa huge portionof the xp from not just the 1 or 2 mobs that the group had a part in killing (how much damage does a low skill rifleman do compared to the 1k+ DoT a commando is capable of?) but 100% of all themobs that died from his AE. I mean, good grief. If you get XP from DoTs and you have an AE DoT that does more than a K of damage, would you not be happy? Would your groupmates? This is an XPgoldmine for Commandos as far as the FT goes.

Am I wrong? Eh, all I know is that I'm not going to be grouping with any flamers any time soon....

Onichi

Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:08 pm

#13

I'll agree on the non Stacking point, if you havemultiple bleeds I think they should stack.

I'm of two minds on the new "Bleed XP fix". On one hand I think the Weapon XP should go towards the weapon type that caused the bleed and on the other hand I think it's a huge nerf for the help it provides when leveling certain professions. I really don't know which side of the fence to sit on this one. They may just have to give every profession a DOT attack to compensate.

In the immortal words of the mighty Chewbacca "MUAAAAAAAARRRRRRrrrgh!"
Imperial Leiutenant

Official Rifleman's Motto: Of all the things i've lost, I miss my mind the most.
"If you can see it without a scope, it aint Sniping"

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Thread: Bleeds not stacking are not the worst of it.