Rifleman Archive
Thread: At least listen to reason:
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kubakabra
Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:28 pm
#1
Here's the thing. You people (everyone: rifleman, pistoleers, bounty hunters, jedi, and so on) should have learned by now that calling for a nerf of ANY profession screws things up for ALL the other professions, except for the truly broken ones like pikeman or carbineer. Stop calling for nerfs for anyone. The real problem in this game is the defense mod stacking. People seem to admit that, but they refuse to believe it when arguing about nerfs. STOP CALLING FOR NERFS! There is a combat revamp on the way, this revamp will change EVERYTHING, and all of your cries for nerf will either drop or change.
If you are going to argue about a profession, at least have your numbers right. I've seen so many people with numbers that are completely WRONG. Do your research before you try to argue intelligently. I'm almost certain there is a post somewhere in the Rifleman forum listing the skill mods, defenses, stats for specials, and anything else you want to know about rifles. Read that post before you get on here and argue that rifles are overpowered. Don't come here and tell me that I have +180 accuracy at master rifleman. The number is +160 I believe, and yes, I'm a master rifleman, but I haven't done my research, because I'm not here to argue numbers. I'm here to tell you to STOP CALLING FOR NERFS! Calling for nerfs will not help your profession, nor will it help anyone else's profession.
I've been a rifleman since the release of this game. I know the ins and outs of rifles very well, and I've been through a lot with rifles. I was around for the 2.5x melee damage modifier. Yeah, I used to get incapped by gorgs using my DLT20a rifle. I had to learn to fight without being hit (and suppression fire didn't work back then, either). With the 2.5x damage modifier, during mid to high level encounters, it only took one hit to kill a rifleman, 2 or 3 with buffs. I believe that is why we have our melee defense, and believe me, we needed it.
Again, the real problem is the defense mod stackers. With my uber accuracy (/sarcasm) I cannot even hit a defense mod stacking TKM/Master rifleman or fencer/pistoleer using center of being. Even with /aim it is extremely difficult, not to mention much slower.
One last time, i will state my position: STOP CALLING FOR NERFS! Calling for nerfs does not help the state of the game, nor does it help get other professions fixed. Go to your profession's board and call for fixes. Complain as loudly and as much as you can until you get your profession fixed, not until you get another profession nerfed. I'm also going to post this as a new post on the main rifleman board with the faint hope that I may turn some nerf criers, but some are so bent on killing another class that they refuse to help their own.
Good luck to everyone in getting your professions fixed, and I sincerely hope that each profession gets what it really needs.
Kuba Kabra
Master Rifleman
Bria
Trigan
Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:30 pm
#3
I would'nt even bother. When those nerf criers are bend on nerfing a profession, they will listened to no reason.
Jasynn
Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:32 pm
#4
The problem is that people don't want to play a profession that suits their combat style. Instead, they want to play whatever profession they want to and get upset when it isn't tough enough. Instead of switching professions, they either want to have other professions nerfed or their own made uber. Of course SOE doesn't help matters with their attempts at "PvP Utopia"[socialism]...a happy little world where everyone is equal and nobody has any fun.
Onichi
Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:53 pm
#5
I Can't from memory ever recall calling for a nerf of any profession. I always push for a "Fixing" of the so called other professions to same level as the ones that are being Nerf called. Nerfing everyone into oblivion solves nothing, it only contributes to the already vicious FOTM cycle we have.
I know I chose my two professions from the get go, it's just pure chance that they happen to be 2 of the most powerful professions in the game currently, I guess I lucked out 
PyscoJuggalo
Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:50 pm
#6
I don't think I ever called for any nerfs ever and if I have I retract them now.......... Might of called for crazy benifits to the rifleman profession when I was a novice though.
But yes I agree nerfing does not work and is counter productive.
YamadaMan
Thu Feb 12, 2004 9:27 pm
#7
Nerf Politician !!!!!
nah I totally agree with that.
we need fixes, not nerfs.
I mastered some so called "uber" professions (fencer/TKM) and no, they aren't uber, and no they aren't bugged or even overpowered (ok TKM's dizzy/KD is actually overpowered). they are just WELL BALANCED, and yes, pikemen and carbineer, and combat medics DO NEED some fixes.
defense stacking is actually an EXPLOIT here's the reason by my example.
I have NO marksman skills AT ALL, not even novice.
and when I need to be db'd (buff removal), I equip a rifle and.... I dodge just like a master fencer !!! this is a BUG, and some people are EXPLOITING that bug, that's why PvP (not the only reason tho) is unbalanced.
no one have to be nerfed (ok dizzy/KD HAS to be nerfed, or limited, at least), and I see more nerf whiners than bug reporters...
I'm just wondering why...
nah I totally agree with that.
we need fixes, not nerfs.
I mastered some so called "uber" professions (fencer/TKM) and no, they aren't uber, and no they aren't bugged or even overpowered (ok TKM's dizzy/KD is actually overpowered). they are just WELL BALANCED, and yes, pikemen and carbineer, and combat medics DO NEED some fixes.
defense stacking is actually an EXPLOIT here's the reason by my example.
I have NO marksman skills AT ALL, not even novice.
and when I need to be db'd (buff removal), I equip a rifle and.... I dodge just like a master fencer !!! this is a BUG, and some people are EXPLOITING that bug, that's why PvP (not the only reason tho) is unbalanced.
no one have to be nerfed (ok dizzy/KD HAS to be nerfed, or limited, at least), and I see more nerf whiners than bug reporters...
I'm just wondering why...
Onichi
Thu Feb 12, 2004 9:33 pm
#8
I think just because it's easier to cry for a "Nerf" than it is to post a constructive work around or criticism... Who knows man..
YamadaMan wrote:
I'm just wondering why...
Viceroy_Fizzlebottom
Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:46 pm
#9
I think the cries for rifleman nerf are centered on 3 things
1.) the insane speed and accuracy while moving. rifles by description are supposed to be the most powerful, yet slowest firing ranged weapon in the game. Yet master are able to spam strafeshot2 every second. add in to this the fact that riflemen get insane accuracy, and are able to do this while kiting, well, this is unbalancing and needs to be addressed
2.) the jawa ion rifle. now personally, I think that this one can be solved by simply removing the ap on it. stun damage is so exotic, and stun layers are so awful that it is not needed.
3.) the defense mods. this in itself isnt a problem, until you factor in the massive amounts of stacking going on. this in of itself isnt the problem, its when you factor in teh fact(and the devs have confiremd) that rifleman is bugged right now.....its getting higher D mods than it should, thereby making rifleman impossible to hit. This example im about to give you is 100% trueI am a master tk with +205 to unarmed accuracy, if a rifleman is dumb enough to let me get into melee range, he SHOULD be toast, but as it stands, riflemen are able to stand there, impossible to hit, spamming headshot3 with their jawas, while my poor little 39% stun helmet is of no use whatsoever. I can't even imagine how easy people without stun layering are to kill like this.
Now, im the last person to call nerf, because I think its bad for the game, but I think if these 3 topics are addressed, then people will stop crying NERF THE RIFLEMAN.
PyscoJuggalo
Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:17 am
#10
Viceroy, I don't give a rats arse about 2 or 3 or even accuracy, but if they touch our Speed this profession will be the biggest joke around. A speed reduction will kill us pure and simple, I will take any other nerf but that.
BTW you remove AP from the JAWA and that 40% Stun Resistance on Layers becomes 80% Stun resistance, personally the Jawa is not that effective when compared to the T21 anyway.
Viceroy_Fizzlebottom
Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:54 am
#11
what im saying is that right now riflemen have insane moving accuracy and insane speed. masters shoot as fast as pistoleers, and when you factor in the fact that they don't miss even while moving, hopefully you can see my point. I think ONE of these things has to give, either the speed or the accuracy while moving.
as far as the ion rifle ap, you have to look at the big picture. stun layered armor is very rare. some servers don't even have it. for a damage type as exotic as stun, having ap is a bit overkill when you factor in the bonuses that ap gets over vulnerability and the fact that stun layered armor is hard to come by.
Barb-Wire
Fri Feb 13, 2004 7:51 am
#12
in case anyone hasnt been keeping up with recent events...
there are going to be no changes until the combat revamp has occured. this is going to effect all skills and we do know 2 things for sure.
1. how HAM is handle is changing (no details)
2. defense stacking will no longer work (no details)
once the devs make a post and this stuff hits TC then we can worry about nerfs. its fine to discuss whats wrong now but the recent few days of trolls calling for rifle nerfs is getting out of hand. rifle is not going to remain as it is now and neither is any other combat skill.
discuss where in general we need to go but people yelling nerf and nothing else other than X is too powerful so nyahhhh!! is not constructive.
there are going to be no changes until the combat revamp has occured. this is going to effect all skills and we do know 2 things for sure.
1. how HAM is handle is changing (no details)
2. defense stacking will no longer work (no details)
once the devs make a post and this stuff hits TC then we can worry about nerfs. its fine to discuss whats wrong now but the recent few days of trolls calling for rifle nerfs is getting out of hand. rifle is not going to remain as it is now and neither is any other combat skill.
discuss where in general we need to go but people yelling nerf and nothing else other than X is too powerful so nyahhhh!! is not constructive.
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