Rifleman Archive

Thread: Keldarin is reviewing AP

UnknownEnigma
Sat Dec 06, 2003 6:37 am
#66

*bored as well*







Ryllocaaryk
winterchylde
Mon Dec 08, 2003 3:36 am
#67

klawlegna initially posted quotes from Keldarin, which states how the current AP/AR system on live servers is working as intended. This system does not modify damage to a target in any way, but it modifies the damage to the target's armor. This system does not suggest any reason for players to contemplatethe AP rating of a weapon or the AR rating of a wearable item, because armor can be repaired and replaced easily. Keldarin isquoted again to say "...it is totally possible that something is creeping into the calculations that we didn't catch, but I have to go back and do a more thorough code review to find it. If we do find something that is causing an increase in damage done (to a target) then we will be correcting it."


There is no nerf on the way.


If players and/or correspondents supply data which proves that the live AP/AR systemdoes in fact modify damage done to a target, then the developers will correct the system and it will no longer modify damage to a target.


AP/AR is nearly useless if the quotes are valid and correct. Since klawlegna is the Rifleman Correspondent, I believe what he posts.




Synthe Bladechylde Imperial Captain
Novice Sharpshooter Master Medic Master Doctor
- The Imperial Order -


PyscoJuggalo
Mon Dec 08, 2003 5:50 am
#68

Winter Cycle, AR is still good, AP is going to be worthless if fixed. He never stated that AR worked any other way than in the AR manual, only stated that AP worked diffrent than the manual stated.


Just to clearify.




I am the Mad Rifleman, Writer of the Riflenomican. I understand the secrets of the Dark Ancient Developer ones and their Evil. (Maniacal Laughter) He he he he he, Ha ha ha ha ha, Aha ha ha ha!
CM's are like nukes. You have them just incase you need them, but as soon as you start using yours the other guys start using theirs and everything goes to hell-PyschoticChipmunk -The First line of the Riflenomican.
Geddeo
Mon Dec 08, 2003 2:18 pm
#69

Hey Volsted, great work on the research.



I'm just wondering about something. Since AP works the way Volsted proves it does, and the Devs say it is working the way they inteded it too, and have "tested" this, is it possible both of you are right? I noticed all your tests were run against creatures. From what you posted, and from personal experience, it is obvious that creatures take more dmg from AP weapons than they do from non AP weapons. But since the Devs say that AP isn't adding dmg, is it possible they are isolating their tests to just PVP? I could see how there might be 2 different logic paths in the code for PVP combat and PVE combat and that might be how you are both right.



If I was a dev testing, I would probably test the system by shooting another player I had set up on the test server. It would be a lot easier to get it to stand still and take the shots than it would be to re-code a MOB to stand there and not fight back. It is also possible that MOBs don't "wear" armor, so when we dmg the armor we are actually damaging the creature itself? These are just some things I'm going to try to test tonight, I just bought a composite helmet I can give to somebody and hs them. I will post any results tomorrow.



I just can't believe a Dev, or anybody, can play the game right now and say that AP isn't adding dmg. Nobody could make that blatent of a mistake, so the Devs must not be looking at the same thing we are.
Madell
Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:42 am
#70

The 'intended' system Keldarinsaid makes more sense only if they undo the changes they've done because of the AP damage multiplier. I clearly remeber the day devs nerfed T21, it was soon after I decided to go for rifleman. Devs themselves used 'not intended' system to explain why they nerfed T21.I don't care if they introduce this new 'intended' system,I only wish i can expect consistency from them.







Jei Song
Master Weaponsmith
VolstedGridban
Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:35 am
#71



Geddeo wrote:
I just can't believe a Dev, or anybody, can play the game right now and say that AP isn't adding dmg. Nobody could make that blatent of a mistake, so the Devs must not be looking at the same thing we are.




Ah, but that's just it, see.

The Devs don't play SWG.

This is not hyperbole nor jaded cynicism speaking here. Raph Koster (aka Holocron, aka the Chief Creative Officer of Sony Online Entertainment) has out-and-out said that the Devs don't play their own game.



Volsted Gridban
4/4/4/0 Ranger, Master Rifleman,
Surveyor of planetary resources. Purveyor of animal resources.
Author of Volsted's Weapon Analysis Guide, Volsted's Power Fishing Guide,
and Volsted's Animal Resource Guide

Draining MMORPG combat mechanics through the Mighty Sieve of Mathematics since 1999
Ypiana
Tue Dec 09, 2003 2:25 pm
#72

APs working great. Wait, higher AP is not supposed to have damage multiplier on target with lower AP?


-- Ypi




I killed my parents... You're next!
/godmode 1
AltharXXX
Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:34 am
#73

Um, it would be nice to know what the slated change is for AP. The response I goton a ticket for why my 46-404 laser does more damage to a lair than my 127-350 t21 was that the laser has a higher average. it's clear to me now that lairs don't have armor and don't get the multiplier. This wasn't clear to the CSR. What is bothering me -- more and more special attacks no longer damage lairs. OMG!!! I'm going to have to shoot a lair for 50k HAM at 250 damagea shot! UG!!! That's going to take 4 minutes!


What I think is people who like the slated combat changes DO NOT have elite master characters. Thus they haven't played long enough to know things like how combat works as it is (or was yesterday.)





Althar Maru, Flurry Janta Assassin
status: retired

Would you care to test out a 400 year old sword to see if it's decayed to condition 0? All the prior testers have no comment. Perhaps a gun which was used in WW I and still fires with high accuracy upto 1km?

If that doesn't get you, then start reading current military specifications for combat equipment.
FaJing
Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:13 am
#74






AltharXXX wrote:

The response I goton a ticket for why my 46-404 laser does more damage to a lair than my 127-350 t21 was that the laser has a higher average. it's clear to me now that lairs don't have armor and don't get the multiplier. This wasn't clear to the CSR. .






So they don't know how the game works OR any math?


Thats reassuring.

Shilak
Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:18 am
#75

Sorry to drag this thread back up again, but am I correct in thinking that the devs didnt intend for high AP weapons to get bonuses when hitting lower armoured targets?


If this is the case then I think our damage will be way below par when they fix it. Currently, I have to spam Advanced Straff constantly with my Laser Rifle (56-520 base) to keep up with the damage output of a Pistoleer/Smuggler spamming Last Ditch with a Scout Blasteron an unarmoured target. With the same buffs as me (i.e. good buffs, food and muon) he can spam a lot longer than I can.


In fact, if you actually think about it, it makes more sense that a high AP weapon would do more damage on a soft target than a low AP weapon.





M O R T A R I U S
Master Bounty Hunter / Master Pistoleer / Small Blue Fly on Chimaera

Tenfo
Tue Jan 13, 2004 2:53 pm
#76

It's clear they never intented for higher AP weapons to do increased dmg to the target but rather just the lower AR armor.


e.g. Laser Rifle with AP2 (medium) vs. Composite armor AR1 wearing target.Base dmg 500 less 80% resists = 100 dmg x 0 multiplier for AP2. Composite armor takes add'l dmg from AP2. Composite condition is reduced from 32465/32465 to 32045/32465 (not sure how they plan to calculate this armor dmg... as if decay wasn't enuf! :/ )


Anyways they want the dmg to the armor itself increased and not anything to the target. But hey who said armor piercing meant it actually pierced something and did more dmg to the target? O.o


What are the devs thinking on this one.


Tenfo




l Tofeity Edeiso - MBH / Rifleman l l Tazon - Elder Jedi l
PsychoticChipmunk
Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:16 pm
#77

Has anything been said about this? I may have just missed it/forgotten I read it, but, well what system is it using now?



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DECarbineer
Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:36 am
#78

That totaly sux. Time after time armor is getting betters and better till you cant take down any melee fighter. We are a little better off with stun damage but how do the pistoleers and carbiniers fell when they fight against an armored melee and their best shots do as much damage as the /spit not to metion that they miss 90% of their shots.



Ifrin the former mon cal rifleman now most fishy jedi on the server
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