Rifleman Archive
Thread: Keldarin is reviewing AP
So, the intended effect of AP is to do more damage to armor? **edit**
I cannot believe I've not dropped rifleman yet. As they have fixed many underpowered and broken classes, I just assumed Rifleman would get corrected too. Apparently, we are as intended. Fodder for all other combat classes. Nice
AP on everything means **edit**
Dont bother. save the headache and just forget AP ever exisisted, Apprently thats what tey are trying to do, after all, its not like armor has 45k durability and the chance of us taking out someones armor is nill, for 2 reasons, Armor repair kits, And if someone stands around and lets there armor decay that much deserves to have it lost.
aries_liak wrote:I am no rifleman but I hear of you soloing Krayts with ease due to your AP with a T21 and cover. In essense you have exploited a weakness and used a good tactics to kill tough mobs.
Well, yes, a rifleman can solo those. There are two tactics to do that:
- use conceal shot. Takes probably an hour. With the increased HAM those things have on Testcenter, it will be 10 hours. Also note that it is almost impossible on most servers to shoot at a Kryat (or any other popular loot-giving MOB) for that long without at least 5 other groups coming along and attacking the target, stealing your kill. Even if it was an effective way to do this, conceal shot will be removed (or changed, but I guess the word is NERFED) in the next update
- use a big CH pet to tank. This makes the strategy a CH strategy and not a rifleman strategy. If your pet holds aggro, any profession can take a Krayat down. And Most professions can probably do it faster, cause they don't empty their mind pool and have to rest. Anyway, using this method we can solo it becasue of the pet, not because of the AP
So I don't see how this is related to the AP nerf the suggest. There is NO reason to nerf us even more. We have NO ability that makes us uber. We may be more powerful than most people think, but I would say we are rather underpowered than that we have any big advantages due to our AP. And all other chagnes they are doing negate this advantage even further.
Okay, this is how I understand it to work. After reading through all the posts on the corr forum and getting clarification from other Corrs who have a better understanding...this is what Keldarin is talking about. It doesn't do extra damage to armor. It reduces the armors effectiveness, apparently what Keldarin sees as damaging the armor.
So if you fire an AP3 rifle at someone with 50% composite armor you will reduce the effectiveness of the armor's resists by 25% each level. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 78% of your damage will get through instead of the 50% before. (50 * 1.25 * 1.25) This would account for armor "working" as the armor guide states. However, when it is against a vulnerability, because you are already doing 100% of the damage, you get no further increase (as it was assumed happened.)
What we really need is for as many people as possible to run some of these through tests. Volstad has already done quite a bit, which is helpful, but the Devs really need more. Note the resists on the mob, the AR level, the AP and energy type of your weapon and then jot down the combat spam as well as the overhead. Keldarin explained that combat spam lies and I'm inclined to trust him. I've seen a lot of discrepency between the combat spam and my actual overhead damage. But it would be helpful to have both. Hopefully we can all get a clearer picture of how this works.
And also, just to clarify, what Keldarin is saying is how AP is supposed to have been working the whole time. If that isn't how it works it will be very helpful to find out.
But hey, we could grief people's equipment in PvP.
WOOT! .. as they say.
No MSPO we are asking the devs to leave armor piercing as is with the damage boosts for higher AP than AR and to fix the vulnerabilities problem you mentioned.
All the examples here are to show how they way they think it's supposed to be workign woudl actually screws us big time while significantly boosting the lower AP weapons. Effectively giving us yet another damage reducing nerf on our best rifle.
In other words we're trying to show them how their "vision" is blurred.
MSP0 wrote:
Ok, my second reading of the thread made some things stick. We are asking for better spread in damage. We lose half our damage against low armor, but increases substantially against heavily armored targets. Is this right?
If so, I can live with that.
It is not so much low armor as it is low resists, The higher the resistance, the better the AP>AR weapons would work.
I was looking at the table that people provided.Cerres (or Halleck), where did you get the formula "If AP-AR=positive then Damage = base*(1-resist*0.5^N) (where N is AP-AR)"? The WS corespondant said he got his formula from the devs:Actual Resistance = Armor Resistance / ((AP-AR)*2)? These 2 formulas produce the same EXECPT when the AR and AP are 3 apart. If you add the WS's resistance reduciton to the damage formula, the WS's formula comes out to Damage = base*(1-resist*(0.5/N)) (where N is AP-AR)"
Also, Has anyone confirmed that when AR is greater than AP that the formulawas (or should have been)changed?Even if they do change it, the formula has to be different from teh oneCerres gave, because htat means Force Sensitives (med armor, 80% resists to all) would be unkillable with a pistol. 200 * (1-.80*1.25^1) = 0.Reducing 50% for each leveldifferencedid not add extra damage, and did not drop the damage to0, so I'm wondeinr if it was not changed.
--Rorrimot
The way I read all this is disconcerting. Are we actually asking to get our damage output halved? That's how they are going to fix the discrepancy.
To my knowledge the only thing that is busted with the current AP system is that it does less damage against vulnerable targets. The way I see this developing thread makes me think we are begging to get nerfed.
If T21's lose the extra damage due to higher AP, what is left of it?
Fat good it does me if I cause more damage to the other guy's armor, but not kill him due to lower damage. Are you all dellusional, or just me?
Ok, my second reading of the thread made some things stick. We are asking for better spread in damage. We lose half our damage against low armor, but increases substantially against heavily armored targets. Is this right?
If so, I can live with that.
I assume damage would still be reduced 50% if armor was greater then armor piercing ?
Anyway, I think I like this system - it would mean in pvp I do more damage on people in 50% composite with my powerhammer then before.
ha, we got a celebrity poster in the rifleman forum, Monika the first jedi!
This whole "lets damage armour" system is retarded and I can not say that enough.
UnknownEnigma wrote:ha, we got a celebrity poster in the rifleman forum, Monika the first jedi!
This whole "lets damage armour" system is retarded and I can not say that enough.
Just bored during server down ... and its not a 'lets damage armor system', its all about armor piercing actually working as intended.
It should reduce armor levels and reduce resistances - not increase damage by a fixed amount.