Rifleman Archive

---

ZechtWisto wrote:

• slower fire rate (maybe a 2-3s cap at master)


• input 2.5x melee mod


• give us ability to be masked from radar


• reduce our melee defense mods

put it those and we won't be picked on anymore...

---

---

ZechtWisto wrote:

• slower fire rate (maybe a 2-3s cap at master)


• input 2.5x melee mod


• give us ability to be masked from radar


• reduce our melee defense mods

put it those and we won't be picked on anymore...

---

Of course we won't be picked on... We'd be useless. Not only would we be reduced to slower harder hitting pistoleers, we'd be slower harder hitting pistoleers that can hide from radar (which they've said time and time again they won't do because people will just use 3rd party programs to show where everybody is anyway) that die alot faster. Lowering our DPS to match that of pistoleers and carbineers isn't the solution, its removing variety. The goal should be to have vastly different classes that each have its advantages and disadvantages. We're like the wizards in fantasy games. High offense, low defense. Does great till someone notices they're there, then they're toast. (or should be, right now due to a few bugs we're not)

---

Seflyn wrote:

I'm sorry but if you think rifleman needs more status defence then you have no clue about balance at all. Remember master rifle doesn't use all your points, if you want those status defences so badly then use your skill points to pay for them.

I believe mRm is one of the top 3 combat professions in the game right now.

---

well, if we bring back the 2.5 mod, ill be to spiced up on pixies to keep myself alive to have room for muon, (or be buffed all the time, and that can be hard), and well... i remember those days... and hated them.

as for a 1.5 modifier, i have no issue with that, infact, i wouldnt mind seeing that, as it may be enough of an inscentive...

---

Rolassk wrote:

While I'm not a long term rifleman (just rifle IV for along time )by any stretch of the imagination, I have played this game for a while and here are my thoughts.

I believe the original thought of the 2.5x melee damage modifier was the devs way of meshing real-life with game mechanics. The idea that a sniper who's nest is invaded by a knife weilder or martial artist comes to mind. The sniper concentrating on their next long distance shot would be totally caught off guard by someone suddenly so close pummeling them. Thus while they are fumbling with their huge rifle trying to counterattack the close threat they would be taking increased damage.

However, in game balance terms with skills like burst run, terrain negotiation and the fact that riflemen/snipers have no skill that allows them to remain off the radar while they snipe, the 2.5x melee damage modifier was unbalancing. It takes what? 2-3 seconds for a melee combatant to run up to a prone rifleman that is spotted shooting at him/her. In that short time the rifleman barely has finished the prone to stand animation. Also, with the recent increases (especially to TK melee damage) to melee damage and accuracy the 2.5x modifier would become an even greater penalty.

I propose a few other changes..
1. Melee Defense in the Rifle Ability tree should be removed. Two reasons; one,no brawler skills are required to be a Rifleman (meaning we have no inherent knowledge of defending ourself from a brawler) two, the scenario in the first paragraph, our weapons are so large (for distance accuracy) that they should theoretically get in the way of defending ourselves when we are being attacked up close.

2. Ranged Defense should be moved from the Concealment tree and into the Rifle Ability tree.

3. After steps 1 and 2 are done, a change to conceal shot and the cover abilitywould be needed for both PvP and PvE. My Idea: You "Take Cover" (Marksman Rifle II ability), after success you disapear to all enemies offtheir radar. Conceal Shot, and Sniper Shot (Sniping IV) are the only shots you can use in this state. Your ability to remain concealed is determined by your cover ability (a pass/fail check is run after every shot), however say if an enemy is within 10m cover is almost always blown. At Concealment III you gain the ability to move while in the "take cover" state, but must remain prone. If you change your posture at any time your cover is immediately removed.
I really think this ability would give Rilfeman a strong defining role in PvP. Imagine how fun it could be to have your faction enemies running around in circles trying to uncover you. "Search and kill, we are taking fire from a sniper".
Some of you may define Rifleman as Heavy Gunners (machine gun support), however I think that would be a better defining role for Carbineers.

4. After all these changes go into effect Rifleman should be madeuseless against melee/pistoleers in terms of accuracy. Except of course if we are using a Spraystick or the new DXR-6R.

---

Your ideas are right on! take cover should mean you are hidden... remove the melee defense mods...

move the ranged to abilities tree and make rifleman = sniper... One thing I would add is.... why do rifleman make targets dizzy? I could see stunned or down one level, but dizzy?

Rifleman should have no AE's.. they should have stun and/or down one level.. remove dizzy.... If a combat medic can throw for 80ms then a rifleman should be able to shoot that far... If the CM range is a bug, then let rifleman have the bug....

The damage range on rifles is crazy... you can shoot for 99-3k damage with the same wep and spamming the same special move... anyone else notice that?

please take the hidden sniper thing seriously as this would enhance immersion and quality play tenfold....

---

Chaice wrote:

The damage range on rifles is crazy... you can shoot for 99-3k damage with the same wep and spamming the same special move... anyone else notice that?

---

---

Kyreal wrote:

heh interesting postings here.....

i am a master rifle/ aspiring ch. i read how we own in pvp etc. let me remind u people of 1 thing. Masters can own in pvp true enough but the novices have fkall chance of winning most of the time, the speed of rifles are 2 slow till u get master rank. TKA and other melee classes are not going to just sit back and let u shoot them down, they are on you within 2 seconds and once they are in range, your owned. no ifs ands or buts about it. u say we can bleed mind or hit mind.... tkas can heal mind on the fly, and most melee pvper's have that tree in their template.....

rifleman overpowered? not a chance its rather 1 of the most balanced professions in SWG which isnt saying alot cuz most are borked.

---

Novice rifleman isn't overpowered, and it probably won't ever be overpowered.

However with the current bugged melee defence I really don't see how anyone can justify a master rifleman being harder to hit than a master fencer using cob just because the rifleman is holding a rifle (or heavy weapon for that matter). It's got nothing to do with realism and everything to do with game balance.

btw I love edit

Message Edited by Seflyn on 02-05-2004 10:00 AM

---

Blankgrun wrote:

Seflyn, you misinterpreted my post. I am not saying to give rifleman status defenses. I'm saying that there is no decent status defenses in rifleman for one. And two, I think that status defenses should mean more. A Pistoleer or Fencer should be very difficult to knockdown on their own, without having to stack.

---

Ah, sorry I just see so many people expecting to get the complete package of great defences against everything and amazing damage at long range I tend to go off against it a bit quick.

I agree, a pistoleer should be a right pain to KD / Dizzy but in paying for that they should have less DPS than a rifleman. I still think however that rifle is far to good at close range at the moment.

I must say there are a few carbineers out there who combine chargeshot (a KD which can't be resisted afaik and can be spammed) with the BH carbine dizzy move for a very potent attack. The trouble is that pistoleers can get taken out by this fairly easily as well.

Another point is that if they made fencers / pistoleers extremely hard to KD they would have to spread the skill mods throughout the tree and put a fair amount of them at master, currently I can get one line of pistoleer and get all their KD defence.

---

Seflyn wrote:

Novice rifleman isn't overpowered, and it probably won't ever be overpowered.

However with the current bugged melee defence I really don't see how anyone can justify a master rifleman being harder to hit than a master fencer using cob just because the rifleman is holding a rifle (or heavy weapon for that matter). It's got nothing to do with realism and everything to do with game balance.

btw I love edit

Message Edited by Seflyn on 02-05-2004 10:00 AM

---

If you cant hit a rifelman as TK you certainly do something wrong. A master rifelman you cant hit is propably master TK and fencer 4440 too.

So you better post that in the def stacker nerf department.

Ahh, the old 2.5x melee penalty. First let me say that I'm a commando. So I'm familiar with what it does to you as we had this penalty for awhile (and before that, I had some experience with it when training for master marksmen). I was very in favor of having it removed because of the absolutely retarded mob warping. But now, it seems the devs have finally fixed the mob warping issue. I suppose it all depends on what riflemen are supposed to be. If you are supposed to be snipers, firing from long range, then I think the 2.5x melee penatly is a very acceptable penalty as for the most part, you should be able to take out the mob before it gets close to you and there should be a penalty if they get too close. If riflemen are more of a heavy gunner class (which I think should be the commando's role, as that makes more sense, but I admit, I'm biased), then you should not have the penalty, as a heavy gunner will get more "in the thick of things" then a sniper would. So I suppose it all depends on what role riflemen will play in the upcoming combat redesign. Personally, I hope y'all become snipers because for one, it seems a majority of riflemen wish to be more of a sniper profession, and two because commandos feel the role of a heavy gunner should be more in their realm of combat (on our in concept thread, its full of us begging for some type of repeating blaster or the E-web). But alas, we're all in the hands of TH and the devs. I don't know about you, but that kind of frightens me, lol. Take care, and happy hunting.

i'm going to wait till the combat revamp to say anything about how powerful we are. it's quite possible the new ham system will open an entirely new can of worms for us to deal with.