Rifleman Archive
Thread: IC 1-12: Combat Roles; Rifleman *TIME TO RALLY*
While we are here talking about our speed being nerfed, the nerf has already been introduced at the test center. We will no longer be able to stack the mindshots. All classes can only put one bleed on each HAM. I guess SOE felt that TKMs needed some help.
Yes. I really made a mistake getting into this profession. I know that now. Should just go be a Commando like everyone else who isn't TKM.
wouldn't it be a quicker/easier fix to just slap 2.5x melee dmg back on us at the master rifleman box to shut everyone up/add some balance to us??
I don't think your suggestion will work as you describe it. If you make it mandatory that every ranged player use /aim to target a specific pool - how will pistoleers do anything at all? how will bounty hunters do anything? all their shots are specific pool, and they have NO defense to anything. (okay, they have about 27 ranged defense from the marksman line)...
why should ranged players have to /aim in order to hit a specific pool and melee players don't have to do anything fancy?
/aim costs ham - rifle specials already cost a lot of ham, using /aim will double your time to shoot, stop you from moving for that time, and cost far more ham in the long run.. no?
anyways, just thought i'd provide some argument/refinement to provoke thought..
Yes that is true, and in real life I would bash someone's head in with the rifle. However in the game wedon't have that option. In the game we have to try and shoot someone with a rifle that sticks out further then your opponent. While it would be nice if we were given a rifle butt command we don't have it and thus we are horrid in melee. You have to realize that we are a strictly shooting class. We can't use the rifle as a melee weapon. Modern military training or no that isn't how it exists in this game.
Waste93 wrote:
PsychoticChipmunk wrote:
The thing that most people seem to forget about us in melee is that we are using the rifle for it's intended purpose. We aren't using the rifle as a staff to block a blow then jam the butt into a guys head we are trying to move that bigass gun so it is pointing at the person and then fire. Well I"m a bothan so the gun is actually about 2/3rd's my height so that right there shows how big it is, now we are trying to point it at someone who is potentially closer to us then the rifle's muzzle. We shouldn't be able to do a **edit** thing with it.
Though blocking blows isn't the intended purpose of the rifle, it does work well in that regards in an emergency. If someone is standing next to you swinging a sword then you have an emergency. It's easier to replace a weapon and/or optics than to replace a person. Which is why the military still teachs techniques to use the rifle this way and bayonet drills. Sure it's rudimentry, but it's better than nothing.
Doesn't the Rifleman also have the best (or one of the best) defenses vs melee of the ranged attack professions? I take this to mean using the rifle to block the attack. Sure we don't have a melee attack as you point out, but we do have a good melee defense for a ranged attack profession.
PsychoticChipmunk wrote:
Yes that is true, and in real life I would bash someone's head in with the rifle. However in the game wedon't have that option. In the game we have to try and shoot someone with a rifle that sticks out further then your opponent. While it would be nice if we were given a rifle butt command we don't have it and thus we are horrid in melee. You have to realize that we are a strictly shooting class. We can't use the rifle as a melee weapon. Modern military training or no that isn't how it exists in this game.
Eaca wrote:
This is a game. It requires balance. Balance does not have to mean the same. Do we want to be able to beat up on pistoleers and carbineers? Of course. It means we have to make a consession. That consession being meleer's can whoop up on us. Rock Paper Scissors.
Off course there has to be balance. But not in the traditional sense. WIth a non class system where you can pick and choose skills, mods, etc you can't balance in the traditional way. What you have to do is make it where different professions have strengths and weaknesses in certain situations.
For example a Rifle should whoop up on Melee at range. Close in the Melee should whoop up on us. Neither case is 100% but averages should support this. A Carbineer should be less effective against the melee at range than a Rifleman but more so at closer ranges. Pistoleer is the next step, Even less effective vs the melee at range but even more so at close. It should just be Rifleman can beat ranged and is vulnerable to all melee.
Each class should have a niche. Strengths that work well against some classes (and MOBs) and weaknesses against others. Instead of a linear balance it would be circular. A beats B which beats C which in turn defeats A.
If anyone actually reads this before the post or are reading this prior to checking the concept forum please just leave xytroncore to his little well of hatred and despair and leave him be. I've finally decided to just ignore him and think it would be best for the community if we all do the same. He's basically just taking up space in the thread after all.
Sorry, just a semi-rant. Carry on.
Just a couple comments.
As for the 2.5X melee penalty. It was a rather stupid idea. Why would someone take more damage just because they are holding a rifle? Does holding a rifle suddenly allow the sword to cut deeper? It may make you easier to hit in some regards because you are holding a bulky rifle, but you shouldn't take more damage. Also a rifle can be used as a staff to block blows better than a short weapon. Such as a pistol. Hence a better melee defense.
Right now the main confusion seems to be over what we are. Are we Snipers or Machine-Gunners? I think it depeonds on play style and level. As a novice Rifleman with no pets I played like a Sniper. I'd go prone, aim, ConcealShot or Use Headshot/Mindshot. As I got a higher level I started using AoE attacks while standing and kiting. Like a machine-gunner (except the kiting part). Yet we use the same weapon for each play style.
I think a good compromise would be to change the weapons to be style specific. By this I mean have a slow firing heavy damage "Sniper" rifle. This weapon would NOT be able to use AoE attacks. It would be used for bleeds and HAM targeting shots. As others suggested I'd include an aim special that targeted the three various pools. This fits in with the feel of a Sniper, the ability to place a round anywhere on the target. The slower firing rate of this weapon might mute some of the complaints we'd get for infringing on other peoples territory with HAM targeted attacks. Also the target HAM would be a special so it wouldn't stack with other specials.
Then we would have our machine-gun. High rate of fire and AoE attacks. This weapon would not be able to do the HAM targeting effects in turn. You'd have to throw in a couple more AoE skills. Or just change StartleShot2 so it isn't just a poor imitation of FlushingShot2. Maybe give it a posture down ability in addition. So we'd have posture up and down attacks. Then rename it ImprovedSuppresion or something like that. Maybe give it a delay effect, but only when the target is prone. If they are cowering on their belly with automatic fire whizzing around them, they aren't to likely to be doing much else. If no delay then maybe an accuracy decrease for them.
Of course this would take some major changes and new weapons. But with the new combat system coming out there probably is going to be major changes anyways. So it could probably be slid in without to much difficulty.
Another possible suggestion.
Change damage so it is also based on range. Pistols would do max damage at close range. As the range increased they would suffer a damage decrease. Rifles would be the opposite. Max at long range decreasing the closer you got. Carbines would be in the middle, decreasing as you went above or below their ideal damage range.
Waste93 wrote:
Just a couple comments.
As for the 2.5X melee penalty. It was a rather stupid idea. Why would someone take more damage just because they are holding a rifle? Does holding a rifle suddenly allow the sword to cut deeper? It may make you easier to hit in some regards because you are holding a bulky rifle, but you shouldn't take more damage. Also a rifle can be used as a staff to block blows better than a short weapon. Such as a pistol. Hence a better melee defense.