Rifleman Archive

HAHA

"Man the master tailors are camping the cloning centers again"

so PVP and PVE will both be turned into a parody of strip poker... kinda fits the silly under-roo wars they got going with the death penalty thing.

if they want us all to be naked why dont they just delete the clothing and have done with it!!

Adding damage to Armor doesn't seem to make much sense, even if they want faster decay. I can only assume(hope) that Keldarin was tripping over his own words a bit. What would seem to make sense and be consistent with armor PIERCING, is that the AP over the AR would reduce the effectiveness of the resistances the armor has. So if you have an AP2 gun and the target has AR 1 with 50% resists, then you would effective be hitting a target with 25% resists. Each AP point would reduce by a certain amount the resistance of the armor to you weapon. That seems to be consistent with what armor peircing should be. You get no benifit to an unarmored target, but receive a benefit to armored targets (which is opposite of how it currently works).

I am hoping that his statement about damaging armor is actually just a slip and he meant reducing it's effectiveness something similar to the above. But then, I try to be optomistic.

Klawlegna, if this isn't how he inteneded it, but indeed wants to have it damage the condition of armor, perhaps presenting the above might give them an alternative to think about.

Halleck Ranger/Rifleman : Ahazi

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Zeenk wrote:

I'd also like to add...

The T21 would be nothing but a PVP griefing gun. Why would they do that? Might as well make it a factional gun to, have to be overt to use it.

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How long after this gets introduced would it take for non-riflemen PvP'ers to call for nerfsto removethe AP on our weapons all together. I'd bet less than 72hrs.

/whine "A Rifleman destroyed my Krayt RIS armour!!!" /endwhine

I seriously believe now,that 3 or more seperate programmers are responsible for thearmour system - weapons specs - Mob Stats and they have never been in the same room together, unless they have only one coffee machine. It's a case of Mr Arse meet Mr **edit**.

Dudes, I think this is in NOW.A week ago I noticed a DRAMATIC drop in my Flurry/Flushing 2 damages. I can no longer hunt efficiently unless I bring a TKA along to fix them crittersin place, due to the increased time it takes. Battle spam is greater then the floaties, using a T21. This is NOT good.

Can someone take some time to please verify this? Now I have to admit, it's hard to pick out all the damages when I'm in a group, but I swear, when I can see a shot that was "mine" it's not pretty. I think PvE just died for us

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Fred_Skinner wrote:
Dudes, I think this is in NOW.A week ago I noticed a DRAMATIC drop in my Flurry/Flushing 2 damages. I can no longer hunt efficiently unless I bring a TKA along to fix them crittersin place, due to the increased time it takes. Battle spam is greater then the floaties, using a T21. This is NOT good.

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Nah, it's not live yet. I did some testing two days ago for a post I made in the Weaponsmith forum. As of two days ago, it still works like the Armor Guide says it does.

in PvE?

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Fred_Skinner wrote:
in PvE?

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Correctamundo. See my posts in this thread for data and more info. They're mostly on the 2nd page.

ok, now that I looked over at the WS and Armourer forums I lthink I understand my confusion.

I have moved around shooting different things over the course of time and I didn't understand that there was a terminalogy distindtion in the "AP" system as I was thinking of it. I did not distinguish betweed AP and resistance and vunerability. You are correct then, I have seen does indicate the AP part is working. It seems even the resistance bit is correct too. It's the nekked bit, the vunerabilities is were they are messed.

I looked over the the pictures (I was soooooo gonna burn you with "see this! same damage") when I noticed the vunerability section. In each case a critter had a vunerability to the partucular weapon I was using, sure enough, no bonus. My, my, that sure is intuitive, eh? I also noticed that I used a 5% resist to enrgy in one case and BOOM one shots.

This will mean that I will have to adjust my tactics to play on the resist parts for the weapon to choose. So resist means vunerability (up to a point) and vunerability means resist in some cases...who'd have thunk it?

I also noticed just nowthe bit about HAM to "floaty"not really being accurate. I must confess, I did not check that. I'll have to look out for that one too.

I'm going to have to get back on this after applying this info to a few things...

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klawlegna wrote:

Keldarinhas stated he is reviewing the code over and over again based on the information we are sending him to the AP Thread on the Correspondent Forums. Just a heads up.

Philosopher1976:

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I'd just like a confirmation of which "intended" is.... intended. The Official description posted for everyone, or the unofficial description posted for us? After that we can offer evidence of which is in effect.

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Keldarin:

The way the system is supposed to work (and should be working) is the way we've been describing here in this forum. High AP rating than AR rating will not increase the damage being done to the target (only the armor). The web document explaining how armor works will be updated to reflect this.

I am fairly sure (95%) that it is indeed working that way as I sat over the programmers shoulder as we went over the actual code. It is totally possible that something is creeping into the calculations that we didn't catch, but I have to go back a do a more thorough code review to find it. If we do find something that is causing an increase in damage done then we will be correcting it.

Please keep the data coming in for what you've been seeing in game. It is invaluable for tracking down this kind of stuff. Couple things to watch out for; Combat spam lies, it doesn't correctly reflect armor adjustments to damage. We want to correct this but the error is inherent in the server architecture which makes it very difficult to fix without destroying the usefulness of combat spam. Small datasets are misleading, in order to correctly determine a statistical trend a fairly large dataset is required. There is quite a lot of randomness in many of our calculations and the only way to damp that out is lots and lots of data.

Message Edited by klawlegna on 12-03-2003 06:47 PM

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What they should do is make special protections raise yourarmor lvl's protection by one leveland raise the HAM of creatures across the board. Obviously this has to do with us killing things to easily.

I am no rifleman but I hear of you soloing Krayts with ease due to your AP with a T21 and cover. In essense you have exploited a weakness and used a good tactics to kill tough mobs. Because the development team doesn't want to alienate new players and make it harder for them they have to use the nerf bat on high professions and high end equipment.

No matter how much you explain and inform them that we enjoy weapons that are more effective and enjoy the advantages and disadvantages they seem to think that nerfing it is the only way. This effects Melee folks as well. They depend on the swords, vibroaxes, and polearms higher AP to take you down in combat. They are going to be hurt just as badly if not more so.

Also on the flip side of this is our lower end weapons are going to be twice as effective as they where before. Now my LLC against a Krayt is not going to suffer a negative penalty to damage those highly armored creatures right? Because if I figure this correctly the Higher AP will reduce the only the damage being done to the armor and not the creature....

If that is the case the DEV's are idiots and have just made commando and BH's even more effective at NPC killing.

What in the hell?

I recall thatwhen the T21 got nerfed, a dev said it was because"armor piercing acts as a damage multiplier".

Anyone else remember that statement? Wish I had it saved somewhere.

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Well, now I'm scared. I play aclass that, without the extra damage AP2 provides, will be severely underpowered. They had better get themselves straightened out on this or they are going to completely hose alot of players.

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DiLune wrote:

Okay, this is how I understand it to work. ***EDIT***

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DiLune, well that makes sense if that is truly the way the devs think it is supposed to work. it would make AP worth while in relation to armoured targets and it would allow them to finally Un-Nerf the T21 in the process.

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DiLune wrote:
And also, just to clarify, what Keldarin is saying is how AP is supposed to have been working the whole time. If that isn't how it works it will be very helpful to find out.

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Two things:

1) I am highly skeptical that the way he describes it is how it's supposed to have been working "all along." The Armor Guide was written before I started, and was written by a Developer.

2) If it is changed to work in the way he describes it, it will be a serious nerf for AP weapons. And the more AP your weapon has, the bigger the nerf.

More on this later. I am doing testing EVEN AS WE SPEAK! With SCREENSHOTS! And NEAT LITTLE FORMULAS IN COLORIZED TEXT!

Hold on to your hats, folks. It'll be a doozy. If my upcoming post doesn't convince 'em, then they can't be convinced.