Rifleman Archive

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Sotaudi wrote:

Regarding Shot Speed:

Shot speed = weapon speed [* special delay] * (1 - (personal speed modifier * .01))

T21 at 7 second delay.

Personal Speed modifier at Master Rifle: 90

On autofire:

Shot speed = 7 * (1 - (90 * .01)) = 7 * .10 = .7 seconds per shot, so firing at the speed cap.

Headshot 2: Speed modifier 1.75

Shot Speed = 7 * 1.75 * (1 - (90 * .01)) = 7 * 1.75 * .10 = 1.225 seconds per shot (not the speed cap)

Strafeshot2 (our best damage multiplier): Speed modifier 3.5

Shot Speed = 7 * 3.5 * (1 - (90 * .01)) = 7 * 3.5 * .10 = 2.45 seconds per shot (nearly 2.5 x the speed cap)

Yes, the one second cap can be reached with this rifle even with Strafeshot2, but only by adding Master Marksman and/or by adding enough speed tapes. Pistoleers with no enhancements reach the speed cap long before they reach Master Pistoleer. Yet even at Master Rifleman, you cannot hit the speed cap with the most important specials without additional help outside the skills earned by the profession. So how does this justify nerfing Riflemen because of speed?

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Have you ever compared a T21 to an average pistol and noticed that it has roughly 50-100% more damage and decent AP?

Did you take into consideration that Riflemen usually target a generally unhealable and unbuffed pool while pistoleers either attack a random pool or the largest, fastest regenerating pool?

Did you take into consideration that Riflemen get loads of ranged defense additionally to their block (which may be bugged atm) while Pistoleers get their only +10ish ranged defense in the master box?

Do you maybe see a disparity here?

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mka wrote:

...snip...

Have you ever compared a T21 to an average pistol and noticed that it has roughly 50-100% more damage and decent AP?

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You are getting Dual Wield. Focus on that. Don't nerf us. You will get to shoot 2 weapons every second. Btw, AP is bugged if you have a vunerability (0% resist).

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Did you take into consideration that Riflemen usually target a generally unhealable and unbuffed pool while pistoleers either attack a random pool or the largest, fastest regenerating pool?

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I have the foods to prove this to be incorrect. Have them now. You are looking at folks tuned to your weapon and not to ours. Why is that exactly? That is the question you should ask. They did give CM's a way to heal that, btw and mind can be buffed.

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Did you take into consideration that Riflemen get loads of ranged defense additionally to their block (which may be bugged atm) while Pistoleers get their only +10ish ranged defense in the master box?

Do you maybe see a disparity here?

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Message Edited by Fred_Skinner on 02-16-2004 02:24 PM

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Tiduch wrote:

Sotaudi,

I think you the one need to get the fact straight. I didnt come here to call for rifleman nerf but rather points out a few things that do not go well or shouldnt be the way they are.

Why dont you give a master pistoleer a tangle pistol with speed 3 sec delay and measly 130 damage and ask him shoot his special at 1 sec per shot?

Please dont tell me master rifleman does not shoot his special at 1 sec per shot. You sir are a hypocrite.

Are you also blind to the fact that enhance jawa can reach 400-500 damage and light piercing too?

Like I said I am not here to call for rifleman nerf. Please reread my post.

BTW in rl when did you see a sniper shoot faster then a pistol?

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Fred_Skinner wrote:

You are getting Dual Wield. Focus on that. Don't nerf us. You will get to shoot 2 weapons every second. Btw, AP is bugged if you have a vunerability (0% resist).

I've yet to see a dev post that states that Pistoleers will definitively get dual wield, but point taken. I never said Riflemen need to be nerfed, I'm just stating the discrepancy that curretly exists.

The 0% resist issue is kind of a moot point to Pistoleers, since we don't get a broadly aviable stun weapon. Sonic Blasters aren't in yet and will be as scarce as Tagle Pistols are now. And I've yet to see a decent Tangle.

Fred_Skinner wrote:

I have the foods to prove this to be incorrect. Have them now. You are looking at folks tuned to your weapon and not to ours. Why is that exactly? That is the question you should ask. They did give CM's a way to heal that, btw and mind can be buffed.

I know that Mind can be buffed, and I regulary visitthe local Entertainer. In my experiece even a buffed mind bar doesnt withstand Headshots aslong as3 fully buffed HAM bars can withstand radom attacks.

And the leveling issue is a moot point. Everyone can get into sharnaff groups to go up the skill tree fast. If you're referring to Pistoleer being a better choice for dabblers, maybe that's true but it's not beneficial to the profession as a whole.

Setaudi: Points taken, although the mind bar remains the HAM bar that is themost difficultto maintain, and it's actually effective to target it, while health directed attacks are more of a nuisance than a real threat to a buffed player.

Instead of getting defensive and trying to avoid nerfs to your profession, why dont you go the other way round and push for changes to the other, 'inferior' or 'broken' professions?

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mka wrote:

I know that Mind can be buffed, and I regulary visitthe local Entertainer. In my experiece even a buffed mind bar doesnt withstand Headshots aslong as3 fully buffed HAM bars can withstand radom attacks.

And the leveling issue is a moot point. Everyone can get into sharnaff groups to go up the skill tree fast. If you're referring to Pistoleer being a better choice for dabblers, maybe that's true but it's not beneficial to the profession as a whole.

Setaudi: Points taken, although the mind bar remains the HAM bar that is themost difficultto maintain, and it's actually effective to target it, while health directed attacks are more of a nuisance than a real threat to a buffed player.

Instead of getting defensive and trying to avoid nerfs to your profession, why dont you go the other way round and push for changes to the other, 'inferior' or 'broken' professions?

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If you will read these forums carefully, Riflemen have been clammoring for all professions to be fixed. Yeah, some idiots cry for nerfing, but they are usually very quickly chastised here.

The fact that the mind bar is our specialty is one of our strengths. To offset that strength, we have virtually no status effects. We get Stun, dizzy, and posture UP changes. Stunis not bad, but dizzy is virtually useless unless you can get a KD or a voluntary posture change. But we have no KD, and our Posture changes are all UP. Since no one except someone who has been KD'ed already is prone in PvP, we have no way of forcing a KD. That also means our Dizzyand posture change specials are virtually worthless in PvP. In fact, the only people who would likely to be prone would be, you guessed it, other Riflemen.

Yes, mind is hard to buff, but riflemen do it routinely. If we did not, we would not be able to compete at all, espeically at Master. If my mind is not buffed, I can drain my mind bar with my specials and weapons faster than you can drain my other Ham pools. The fact that mind is hard to manage is really a moot point anyway. I have been in battles with experienced players who had buffed minds and after several minutes of fighting and getting their minds down to virtually nothing, sat there frustrated at the fact that suddenly they had full mind again (you know, that unhealable pool?). If you know what you are doing, you can manage mind effectively.

And as far as leveling in groups, at the lower levels of Rifleman (that is, until you get well into the tree), working in groups gives you very little XP because you fire so slow with our weapons before you get to Master. Groups help other classes far more than they help riflemen.

Besides, I can honestly say that the only people I have ever one-shot in PvP were people who had more white in their HAM bars than color. But, I have been one-shot killed by both Pistoleers and Commandos. And I have been dizzy/KD'ed by TKs and Fencers and been killed without ever landing a shot.

No serious rifleman wants any other profession nerfed. They want the other professions fixed.

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Sotaudi wrote:

-snip-

No serious rifleman wants any other profession nerfed. They want the other professions fixed.

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You said it all right there Sotaudi..

/salute

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mka wrote:

Have you ever compared a T21 to an average pistol and noticed that it has roughly 50-100% more damage and decent AP?

Did you take into consideration that Riflemen usually target a generally unhealable and unbuffed pool while pistoleers either attack a random pool or the largest, fastest regenerating pool?

Did you take into consideration that Riflemen get loads of ranged defense additionally to their block (which may be bugged atm) while Pistoleers get their only +10ish ranged defense in the master box?

Do you maybe see a disparity here?

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Have you ever tried to use a T21? Have you ever tried to use a T21 against an 80% Energy resist composite helm in PvP? I have. I don't any more. The HAM costs, and not just mind, are far greater than pistols, and the pool it hits the hardest on the person shooting the weapon is that same unhealable mind pool of which you are complaining. An advanced components T21 can have mind

Yes, we target the unhealable mind pool, just like CMs, just like Swordmen, and, as my friend Ecad (TKM) says, "Headhit1, baby," so so can TKs.

And while on the subject of "unbuffed" and "unhealable" pools: I am so tired of people whining about their mind pool being hit because it is unbuffed. Here's a thought: "Buff it." Yeah, it may take ten minutes to get an entertainer mind buff. Big deal, Ifrequently spend over an hour trying to find a Master Doc to buff my Health and Action stats, and when I find a Doc, I usually have to sit in line for a longer time. And unhealable? CMs can heal mind. You can pop a muon or food buff to "heal" mind. TKs can "Force of Will." I can't count the number of times I have been taking out an opponent's mind and only to have the mind bar suddenly reappear mostly blue again even after I incapped them. Unhealable? Please.

Yeah, we get some good ranged defense mods. And right now, there is a bug where we get additional melee defense mods. But, as someone else commented, if I may paraphrase, "We are a profession that can only be KD'ed if you hit us with a gentle breeze." We have virtually no stat modifier defenses. You can miss me with eyeshot, and I will still be blind, LOL.

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station1 wrote:

First off, I'm not calling for a Rifleman nerf.

But if you are asking why people call nerf, first rule out the noob stuff:

-players not using good armor/buffs/psgs

-players not using good tactics

-players ignoring their Mind Pool

Now lets say a "smart" player going against a Rifleman gets himself a good suit of armor. Lets say he's lucky and his server has maybe 30% stun layers available. He gets his 35% PSG. He's a human and his Mind and Willpower is 1100. He drinks some +500 Fishak and eats that food that raises Mind. He saves using the Muon for when he needs it. He gets stat buffs from a Doctor. (It isn't practical that he should always try to get an Entertainer Mind buff for PvP. There aren't enough people willing to do it.)

Should he have a chance?

I would think so. But when the Rifleman took out me and my group of 5-6 people in Theed the other day, he proved me wrong. None of us could hit him except maybe 1 out of 15 shots. He could run and shoot his giant T21 backwords at us and hit every shot. Although we tried to stay out of his ideal range, range didn't seem to matter. We got nailed at point blank consistently. He could spama highly damaging AP3 specialat useverysecond or soand every shot would hit. Intimidating and warcrying him just delayed the inevitable.

My armor and food-buffed Mind was cut through like butter. My PSG was destroyed quickly. My Muon only gave me 1 or 2 more secondsseconds to live.

He wore no armor. Why bother? No one could hit him anyway. This is just one example of many.

Maybe he was a Rifleman/TKM. (likely)

THIS is why people call for nerfs to Riflemen. Because Rifleman + TKM is the unbeatable template. You can disagree, but I would suggest that you look at the number of people flocking to the Rifleman and TKM right now. People aren't stupid. Many will become whatever template is winning the most.

You can blame it on the stacking, thats what I do. I don't even disagree with having "Defensive" templates per se, but when you have Riflemen/TKM, you have some of the best Defensive AND Offensive power in the game.

The one complaint that is specific to Rifleman is the speed issue. The Devs designed a system where the tradeoff for higher damage was slower speed. People have figured out a way around that with Rifles.

Something needs to change. Do you guys really want a game full of Riflemen+TKMs and nothing else?

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