Rifleman Archive
Thread: Keldarin is reviewing AP
If the intent is for the armor to take the extra hits for weapons with higher AP value, why call it armor piercing, the key word being piercing.
Cul
Under the current definition AP does jack didly squat for us. I do not care in PvP if I damage someones armor, that costs them money, it doesnt keep me alive. I would rather kill them faster. PvE, ruining an NPC's amour does NOTHING! AP should add damage. Armour wear is retarded. Its is so rediculous it makes me mad. This proves the T21 is even more of a joke.
Agree with the last poster, I really don't see the worth of AP after this change. If it was a flat 25% reduction per AP over AR then I could see some worth, but as it stands it's simply easier to pull out a different damage type weapon.
Great stealth nerf to high AP professions damage there.
Keldarin:
The way the system is supposed to work (and should be working) is the way we've been describing here in this forum. High AP rating than AR rating will not increase the damage being done to the target (only the armor). The web document explaining how armor works will be updated to reflect this.
I am fairly sure (95%) that it is indeed working that way as I sat over the programmers shoulder as we went over the actual code. It is totally possible that something is creeping into the calculations that we didn't catch, but I have to go back a do a more thorough code review to find it. If we do find something that is causing an increase in damage done then we will be correcting it.
This is not good news. They nerf'd the T21 damage becausethey thought the maxdamage we did, espagainst low armoured MOBS, was too high. Now if this does get "fixed" they reduce that maximum again.
What thiswould dois effectively narrow the damage range between AP0 and AP3 weapons. Now at non-master weapon speeds are still a factor, this will kill of any real use of the T21 except against AR3/HighResistanceMobs.
It would mean that a E11 that has half the damage but twice the speed of a T21 is just as good against low armoured low resistance targets. And the fact that they are reducing armour/resistances on a lot of CH pet type Mobs amplifies that fact.
klawlegna wrote:
Keldarin:The way the system is supposed to work (and should be working) is the way we've been describing here in this forum. High AP rating than AR rating will not increase the damage being done to the target (only the armor). The web document explaining how armor works will be updated to reflect this.
I am fairly sure (95%) that it is indeed working that way as I sat over the programmers shoulder as we went over the actual code.
Oh for the love of Christ.
It's Alchemy and the Moss-Covered Twig in EQ all over again.
Keldarin is saying that the AP system does not work in the way that I, Seflyn, Logix (the Weaponsmith Correspondent), and god knows how many other people, know it to work. We've tested it. We've run the numbers. We can crank out neat little formulas in spiffy HTML-ized colored text that will let you calculate how much damage you're doing to the MOBs based on your battlespam info.
But no, we're wrong. "Combat spam lies." We're just a bunch of morons who don't have access to the source code. All we do is play the game on the live servers, so what could we possibly know?
Just like Alchemy in EQ, which they claimed worked just fine for two years before finally acknowledging that "Oh, hey, it worked in our TESTING because we were using different code there."
Just like the Mossy Twig in EQ, an uber weapon that dropped off a Level 30 MOB because the EQ Devs didn't have a clue why such a seemingly lousy weapon was so overpowered in the hands of a high-level player.
Here's something for all you non-Dev folks to think about:
They're making changes to MOB behavior and Armor stats based on how they think AP works in the game. They're changing the Armor level of the AT-ST in an upcoming patch. This change is already on the Test Center.
They are changing these things based on an INCORRECT UNDERSTANDING of how Armor and AP works in this game.
That oughtta give you a little tingle.
I'm just scared they might fix this system.
/Shiver runs down spine and curls into fetal position.
The way they describe how AP is supposed to work, makes AP sound worthless.
Second they should just get a developer to play live and he or she will see that AP definately makes things easyer to kill.
PyscoJuggalo wrote:
I'm just scared they might fix this system.
/Shiver runs down spine and curls into fetal position.
The way they describe how AP is supposed to work, makes AP sound worthless.
Second they should just get a developer to play live and he or she will see that AP definately makes things easyer to kill.
Exactly, it's quite clear to me that the way the Devs think AP works and how it works on real live servers are two very different things. If the live servers are brought into line with the vision of the Devs then AP becomes a very marginal advantage. This again reduces the effectiveness of the T21, aweapon that already suffers from some HAM cost / damage ratio problems due to it's previous nerfing.
I have a big problemaccepting the whole reducing 25% of the targets current resists concept is a worthwhile advantage to place on the high AP weapons.
in other words dont let them "fix" this.
making it damage armour is idiotic no one in PVP wears armour anymore due the death silly death penalty insurance and who cares how much you damage a NPC's armour?!?!??!!!!!
Wow...
Klawlegna... Please do whatever it takes to make them understand. If they truly think that changing "armor piercing" to "armor damaging" is either the intended way or the right way to do things, then bye-bye rifle. I'd much rather keep today's "broken" system.
Having AP damage armor makes it absolutely usesless to the player using the weapon. Do we care how much the armor is damaged and how much our opponent will have to pay to replace it? Absolutely not. Armor piercing should do just that -- pierece armor. That means that the person wearing the armor takes more damage when shot by a high AP weapon than by a low AP weapon. This is so obvious even a chimp should be able to understand it.
Overall, if AP does not improve the final damage by an appreciable factor, T21 becomes an extremely mediocre weapon. For example Laser Rifle beats it hands down (of course they are about to nerf that to hell with damage mitigation). They either need to boost is up the base damage by a hefty factor, or reduce both the ham cost of the specials and the resouces required to manufacture it.
I'd also like to add...
The T21 would be nothing but a PVP griefing gun. Why would they do that? Might as well make it a factional gun to, have to be overt to use it.
We would then have NO elite profession weapon. Our supposed elite weapon would not only be slower but also do less damage than marksman guns. The guns we would use for NPC or hunting would be the same any marksman with the rifle tree could have.
/mood sarcastic
I hope they add little numbers over things heads as to the damage we are doing to their armor. I would like to brag to my hunting group about how much worthless damage I did to a Seething Bol Crusher's armor right before they all killed it.
Zëënk R¤düxŠI can already imagine the following on-screen messages:
"Carl the Commando hits your for 8000 with his LLC: Your shirt has been slightly burnt on the sleeve."
"Billy the BH hits you with Eye Shot for 300: Your glass lenses have been slightly scratched."
Fights would go on forever and the first one to lose all his clothes must run away in shame to the cloning.... uhhh... clothing center.