Rifleman Archive
Thread: Not Overpowered
Quidium
Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:10 am
#15
I think the devs have realized that profession nerfing is not the way to go to fix problems. That's why they haven't messed with us yet. They need to fix everyone else before they touch us, and it looks like that is currently the plan. I don't see any profession nerfing until the balancing patch, which won't be a nerf but a fix. It shows a true gamer though to come in here, not being a rifleman and agreeing with us. Too many Master underwater basketweaver/novice pistollers are pissed cause they can't beat us, get master pistoleer and smuggler and ya can.
Ygu
Wed Feb 04, 2004 12:10 pm
#16
My apologies ga2.
Point by point on the original poster:
> 1) WE HAVE NO KNOCKDOWN DEFENSE
Ok, one weakness.
> 2) WE DONT HAVE A KNOCKDOWN MOVE (and before u tell me to use dizzy and supression fire, a
> novice bh told me to try that and while he spamed suppression fire on me as a test i was on autofire, he
>was incaped at the same moment i went to kneeling. If i had been moving and fireing specials for more
>damage then this will not happen. Suppression fire is not viable in pvp)
Not really a weakness, because knockdown is only a tool to help win the fight. We don't need that tool as we have massive raw unbridled damage output. Another way to look at is, our knockdown is when we incap them in 3-5 seconds of fighting.
> 3) WE HAVE NO DELAY MOVES (If u get hit with a 10 sec delay in pvp, your most likely gonna die, as
> most pvp combat takes less time than that anyways to finish)
Again, not really a weakness, just something that other classes can do to us... along with everyone else.
> 4) OUR STAT MITIGATION MOVES OUR POINTS FROM HEALTH AND ACTION (the 2 stats hit the most)
> AND MOVE THEM TO MIND
No, the mind is the best place to move points. You can easily buff HA. You can easily heal HA. Mind is a pain to buff and difficult to heal. Maxxing mind points is great.
> 5) HIGH HAM COSTS
Maybe. Depends on your situation. There are many ways around mind cost. Migrate stats into focus. Use stockless t-21s. Use Mind/xxx powerups. Use pate (so much better than muon). Use muon (on top of pate for emergencies). Get buffed (if you have time). Not to mention, tons of other classes have as bad a HAM problem, or worse.
> 6) UNABLE TO WEAR ARMOR CAUSE OF STAT MITIGATION AND HAM COSTS (Unless we are buffed
> out the wazoo and druged up on muon, I personally dont know anybody else besides rifleman who will buy
> 20 crates fo muon gold at a time. The cost and time factor to get mind, health, and action buffs, let alone
> the time, is excrutiating.)
That's just totally false. I have low ham compo boots and gloves on all the time. I have low ham helm and chest on hotkey. I still have secondaries left over for pants and possibly some arm pieces, except I like to wear bodysuits. Just buy unlayered stuff, and slice for encumbrance...you don't need uber slices,I just took the first encumbrance slice I got on each piece.It's not expensive considering we can do 9k piket missions in about 30 seconds + travel time. Not only can we wear armor, we have a weapon (jawa ion) that makes other people's armor useless. (BTW, stun layers do not help vs the jawa, contrary to popular belief).
On top of that, mastering Rifleman gives you PLENTY of points leftover to dabble and bring your defenses to a godlike level.
---
Now all of that talk above was assuming you are just a basic master rifleman who doesn't have time and money out the wazoo. Let's now talk about the end game... the one that matters, since it's what everyone strives for and looks up to.
Fully buffed, fully armored, fully spec'd. Nothing else compares. We can cut through other ppl's l33t armor and most of our opponents can't. With attachments, we have one of the highest damage weapons in the game, with the highest armor piercingin the game,firing on a 5x multiplier at the 1 sec speed cap... area effect. And our buffs/migration/whatever goes naturally into our mind, which make our heads some of the strongest around... other classes need to split their resources to protect their unhealable pool and reduce special costs. Our accuracy is spot on even while running at point blank, and the last weakness that we have, our mediocre defense, can easily be eliminated by dabbling with our leftover points.
On top of all that, we can kite like all get out.
---
Now I like winning, and I don't want to be nerfeduntil I can't win, or even to the point where I can only win 50% of the time. I want the tactics to take on more depth so that I can only win if I choose the right tactics, and my opponents fail to counter. Right now, all I do is spam HS3 or SS2 till I win. That's definitely better than spamming it till I lose, which is what will happen if we get "nerfed". So I am not calling for a nerf. I am simply calling for more depth to be put into my class.
BaronJedi
Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:46 pm
#17
Our accuracy at close ranges needs to lowered a bit. Which is why I am wondering about the whole Disruptor Rifle thing. I was thinking about a lower accuracy while moving but I am not sure. It doesn't take long for someone to run into close range, and of course once they are there, the fight would be over unless the Rifleman ran backwards. Running while firing is a huge key in this game and it seems that many are convinced that everyone weapon should be able to do this except rifles. I just wish I knew what the Devs' "vision" of this profession was suppose to be.
Ygu
Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:04 pm
#18
I do agree that we should wait until after the combat revamp is out before we call for any changes. I have a bunch of ideas on how to fix things, but it really pointless to campaign for them when the revamp could change everything.
kpr
Thu Feb 05, 2004 12:30 am
#19
Ive already tried the fight against a master pistoleer and if we spammed specials he could still almost beat me, its how u do it.
What most people dont understand is u can get armor with stun layers and that they should just get it for the helmet to save them from jawa headshot.
The armor piercing doesnt add anything in pvp so that wont matter.
As for that we can wear armor yes we can but some of our weaknesses will be truely glareing if we ever get nerfed. Like the part of no kd move or delay abiltiy.
Yes we have high damage and really melee defense really doent matter, we get what +40 while a tka gets like a +200? to attack at master, does that mean they miss, no.
Ive fought against good pistoleers and got womped by being delayed, 10 sec of no specials really do u in.
Most of the uber rifleman out there are either stacked classes which are really hard to beat or have buffs and armor, yes this is tuff but Ive done it and still got beat.
Most people just dont know how to pvp correctly....
As for uber were not..
And Im pretty good at pvp cause I kill most of my opponents, doesnt matter what they are.
But i still lose here and there.
Its just that most rifleman go into pvp alot more prepared than most other classes.
kpr
Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:34 am
#20
If u want a true test take on a pistoleer and a carboneer all with no drugs and no buffs. Usally who ever gets the first shot wins....
Its not the class thats broke its the combonations that u can do with it, and the high levels that buffs give....
If you dont buff and go against someone its way close fight and it comes down to skill at that point....
Another point about the Jawa is that most dont have Stun Layers in there helmet and use psg for stun...
I actually went against a pistoleer with both and had alot of fun but ultimately got beat....
Once the defens stacking is gone most of the dabblers will be gone and our class is safe......
Nealoc187
Sun Feb 08, 2004 2:36 pm
#21
Oh I'm sorry I must have mistaken the ability for rifleman to fire at speed cap and do 1000dmg per shot in PvP with an area attack on entire groups of 20 while running the opposite direction and holding a 30lb rifle outstretched with one hand and never missing a single shot to be overpowered. My fault. And then to top it all off you can DB them from 64m with impunity. You're right, rifleman is not overpowered at all.
DomMantell
Sun Feb 08, 2004 4:18 pm
#22
A master rifleman CANNOT fire at the speed cap without an exceptionally fast rifle or skill attachments. Even a master rifleman with master marksman is going to find it hard to fire anything except a speed sliced t21 or good laser at the cap.
As for doing 1000 dmg? Maybe, with a well crafted, stocked, T21 with a 30%+ damage slice and a max damage powerup, but only if the target is unarmored. Even a set of Bone armor will give 20% protection to energy, there are plenty of sets of composite with 80% energy resists out there. Add a PSG on top of that and we may as well be spitting at an opponent for all the damage we'll cause.
Can we hit an entire group of 20 people? yes, if they are all stood nice and close together. But then I'm pretty sure that all combat professions have area attacks that will hit a group of people stood within the right range, even melee professions.
/examine Nealoc187
hmm... I'd say that anyone who can boast about soloing 5 post-patch giant krayts should think long and hard before saying that anyone else's profession is overpowered
As for doing 1000 dmg? Maybe, with a well crafted, stocked, T21 with a 30%+ damage slice and a max damage powerup, but only if the target is unarmored. Even a set of Bone armor will give 20% protection to energy, there are plenty of sets of composite with 80% energy resists out there. Add a PSG on top of that and we may as well be spitting at an opponent for all the damage we'll cause.
Can we hit an entire group of 20 people? yes, if they are all stood nice and close together. But then I'm pretty sure that all combat professions have area attacks that will hit a group of people stood within the right range, even melee professions.
/examine Nealoc187
hmm... I'd say that anyone who can boast about soloing 5 post-patch giant krayts should think long and hard before saying that anyone else's profession is overpowered
AbsTracT
Sun Feb 08, 2004 9:00 pm
#23
kpr wrote:
6) UNABLE TO WEAR ARMOR CAUSE OF STAT MITIGATION AND HAM COSTS (Unless we are buffed out the wazoo and druged up on muon, I personally dont know anybody else besides rifleman who will buy 20 crates fo muon gold at a time. The cost and time factor to get mind, health, and action buffs, let alone the time, is excrutiating.)
how true...how very true...i just bought 6 crates actually 
. thank god im a high ranking imperial, so the crackdown doesnt bother me
. thank god im a high ranking imperial, so the crackdown doesnt bother me
Wynchester
Sun Feb 08, 2004 10:02 pm
#24
iOn fer teh w1n! Mah lewT haxedsTun 10neats yur m1nd.... u No heel fur u hahaha 1 wIn! This class is a joke.. why the **edit** else do you see everyone and there mother useing a ion if this class sucked so bad like you all make it out to be? Please... go cry me a **edit**ing river. Easy fix for rifleman: Leave everything the same except change the damage from mind attack to health or action (something i can **edit**ing heal!). Then rifleman is balanced. Thank you and flame on.
Wynchester
Sun Feb 08, 2004 10:08 pm
#25
Oh and btw... you dont needKDattacks or anything else other class's have when you **edit**ing hit mind pools for 1k+. Doc buffs litterly mean **edit** when your mind is bleeding for 1k ticks. And please dont give me that **edit**... oh my t21 eats my mind pool everytime i shoot **edit**. Ever hear of food.. yep its ingame 1500 focus means nonstop t21 specials. Next worthless complaint? Step on up.
Wynchester
Sun Feb 08, 2004 10:27 pm
#26
Random rifleman: **edit**.. you never played a rifleman to masta and no nothing of our weakness.
Me: Yes please fix my class.. it really sucks fighting nothing but rifelman and cm's. Basicaly it boils down to who kills each others mind first. Thanks for the laf.