Rifleman Archive
Thread: Keldarin is reviewing AP
Keldarinhas stated he is reviewing the code over and over again based on the information we are sending him to the AP Thread on the Correspondent Forums. Just a heads up.
Raphayl:
I'd just like a confirmation of which "intended" is.... intended. The Official description posted for everyone, or the unofficial description posted for us? After that we can offer evidence of which is in effect.
Keldarin:
The way the system is supposed to work (and should be working) is the way we've been describing here in this forum. High AP rating than AR rating will not increase the damage being done to the target (only the armor). The web document explaining how armor works will be updated to reflect this.
I am fairly sure (95%) that it is indeed working that way as I sat over the programmers shoulder as we went over the actual code. It is totally possible that something is creeping into the calculations that we didn't catch, but I have to go back a do a more thorough code review to find it. If we do find something that is causing an increase in damage done then we will be correcting it.
Please keep the data coming in for what you've been seeing in game. It is invaluable for tracking down this kind of stuff. Couple things to watch out for; Combat spam lies, it doesn't correctly reflect armor adjustments to damage. We want to correct this but the error is inherent in the server architecture which makes it very difficult to fix without destroying the usefulness of combat spam. Small datasets are misleading, in order to correctly determine a statistical trend a fairly large dataset is required. There is quite a lot of randomness in many of our calculations and the only way to damp that out is lots and lots of data.
Message Edited by klawlegna on 12-03-2003 06:47 PM
Message Edited by klawlegna on 12-04-2003 07:21 PM
/agree
I'm watching close, I think with all the people assisting him we're going to come out on top.
If VolstedGridban or anyone else has anything laid out I, I will post it over there. Direct me to your link or post it again here and I'll get it over.
one thing to add.........the most important thing you should add...........Make....ArmorPiercing WORK! =]
klawlegna wrote:If VolstedGridban or anyone else has anything laid out I, I will post it over there. Direct me to your link or post it again here and I'll get it over.
He has posted some tests in the pinned thread in the WS forum that discusses those issues.
However, if I understand this correctly, his testings verified that apart form the vulnerability bug, the systems works as described in the armor guide.
Now the dev states that it does NOT work that way but in the way that they described on the forum.
So either they are looking at two different games (is Testcenter running a differnt AP code than live?), or one of them is wrong. Since Volsted provided some pretty convincing screenshots and math, I have to question and doubt the statements fomr this dev. Unless I am missing some important thing here. It's hard to believe that they screwed up the changed code so badly that it accidentally behaves as the old code was intended. Something is very wrong here.
Of course, all the confusion does not change the base problem: That is we do NOT get any AP bonus anymore, our profession will recieve a MAJOR NERF. Take away AP3 from the T21, and it's even less effective than it is now. I think you should agressively fight this new system, even if it apparently is not working right now.
CaLVines wrote:
He has posted some tests in the pinned thread in the WS forum that discusses those issues.
However, if I understand this correctly, his testings verified that apart form the vulnerability bug, the systems works as described in the armor guide.
Now the dev states that it does NOT work that way but in the way that they described on the forum.
What this guy said.
The data both VG and I have completely contradicts what Keldarin keeps saying. So, we're going to have to have some huge beyond-a-doubt data to convince him to trust our word and take a second glance at the code.
Logix wrote:
The data both VG and I have completely contradicts what Keldarin keeps saying. So, we're going to have to have some huge beyond-a-doubt data to convince him to trust our word and take a second glance at the code.
So, am I going to be spending a weekend shooting Stone in the face while someone jots down numbers?
What you all may be missing is that if he takes a look at the code and it appears the AP does increase you damage he will fix that inasmuch as taking out the damage increase.
I don't want to rain on the parade but that seems to be the intent of what Keldarin is saying.
By the way, this is a quote from Raphayl, not Phil. I thought it looked weird. Just didn't want you to get burned for misquoting the corr forum:
"
Philosopher1976:
I'd just like a confirmation of which "intended" is.... intended. The Official description posted for everyone, or the unofficial description posted for us? After that we can offer evidence of which is in effect.
"
klawlegna wrote:
Keldarin:
High AP rating than AR rating will not increase the damage being done to the target (only the armor).
Since armor absorbs damaged based on the resist % this would mean usign a T21 against light armor woudl wreck that armor faster and the armor woudl actuall get a bonus to damage absorbtion because the AP 3 of a T21 is 2 times higher than the AR of the armor.
Examples:
T21 AP 3 vs Composite Armor with AR1 and 50% energy resist.
Current: Combat spam shows 500 damage. Damage is increased by 25% then another 25%. so 500X1.25x1.25= 781.25 then the 50% resistance kicks in reducign that to 390.625. then PvP damage reduction kicks in reducing it to 97.65625 or a floaty of 97 or 98.
Change based on the quote above: 500 x 0.5 = 250 x 0.25 for PVP reduction = 62.5 or a floaty of 62 or 63.
So in effect the AP vs AR difference beign negated so damge isn't increase means the effective resistance of this piece of armor to a T21 is now 1-(250/781.25) or 68%. Thus the person wearin composite at 50% actually gets a bonus of 18% energy absorbtion against a T21 just to keep the damage from increasing. It also means their armor loses an additional 35-36 points because of this change.
That's without using a special and havign a damage sliced T21 with a max damage power-up, which in the case of one I have it's max is 533 because of the slice and pup.
So with this kind of change we might as well remove armor rating and armor piercing and have just resistances since in effect that's what is going to happen to AP weapons if this is how they intended it to work. After all there's very few mobs with AR 3. Those with AR2 or less woudl make the T21 worse to use than the Laser rifle for the simple fact that Laser rifle can get high max damage especially if it's Krayt enhanced since it's impossible to get 11 identical tissue to make the schematic then crates of handlers needed for a T21 because of the max loot being dropped to 10 per creature and identical tissues from two sperate kills have differenct serial numbers. *see my signature for how to fix that problem*
I don't see how this is good. Unless I am reading it wrong. Instead of a damage bonus our T21's will just be for damaging armor?
So an armorsmith would be a good profession to go with rifle. I can help speed up the wear process of peoples armor to keep my armor business busy.
=/
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