Rifleman Archive
Thread: Can THEY justly nerf us again?
if they would not allow melee proffesion modifiers to stackwhile wielding a ranged weapon then there wouldnt be any problem, actually if it was taken a step further where a Fencer could not use Teras Kasi melee modifiers while wielding a Sword then these Uber templates would go away and crys for nerf would soften a lot.
Basically I think when you learn +10 melee defense in a particular skill, it should mean you learned melee defense while using that weapon, so it becomes ineffective when you use a different weapon
Instead of nerfing classes based off PvP dabblers they should nerf the stacking modifiers.
My only complaint about Rifleman are the defenses....... Why do Riflemen have more melee defense than Swordsmen and Pikemen? Why do Rifleman have more ranged defense than Pistoleers? I thought Rifleman was a class that did high damage but had low defenses. Instead, you get high damage and even higher defenses than many "tank" classes.
The major problem with rifleman is the Dev's screwed up. We were supost to be a lot easier to hit in melee taking penalties to Melee Defense while holding a rifle. They did just the opposite. We get MORE defense vs melee currently, which is a bug.
Secondly I think taking away the 2.5x's damage modifier was a huge mistake. Before if something including pets came into melee range you had to address the problem with warning shot/putting away the rifle/or try to handle the massive damage. Now there is no penalty and no thinking involved when close range is concerned. I think thats one of the major reasons you see so many bandwagon jumpers on our profession.
If they fixed the backasswards melee bug and add the 2.5x's damage back - I think you will see things are pretty well balanced again.
I agree with you Vymordryss, about the 2.5x melee damage penalty. It should have never been removed. But then they would HAVE to remove the timers from ALL of our delay shots (suppression and a couple others) so we would at least have the ability to keep mobs/players out of melee range.
stacking modifiers are EXACTLY the problem here , and unfortunatly its making Rifleman look as if they are overpowerd, when they are not
I see a MAJOR discrepancy when you learn Melee Defense as a Teras Kasi and expect t have the SAME melee defense abilities while wielding a ranged weapon, it isnt accurate and I belive it wasnt the Devs intention.
I have been a rifleman since day 1. I struggled with the ham costs, I struggled with all the 1 shot kills, teleporting mobs etc. I mastered with a DL20a because there was nothing better on my server at the time. Etc etc..
..so with the melee defese bug + removal of the 2.5x penalty it throws our class out of balance. Which makes me nervous because a nerf is going to come, and in what shape and form is the only question.
I'm personally worried thier going to make it so the class is no longer playable. I don't want that because I love rifleman and I have proudly worn my "sniper" tag since the day I got it, even though it has always made me a PvP target.
I also don't particularly like being in the "flavor of the month" catagory. In the begining on Starsider there were maybe 5 serious master riflemen. There were so few up until more recently I who PvP'd religiously only ever met 2 on the battlefield. One was our old corospondant and the other was from his guild as well. Thats it though. Now in PvP it seems all the former BH have become riflemen..heh.
jedichuck wrote:
I agree with you Vymordryss, about the 2.5x melee damage penalty. It should have never been removed. But then they would HAVE to remove the timers from ALL of our delay shots (suppression and a couple others) so we would at least have the ability to keep mobs/players out of melee range.
and I don't agree with ether of you, it's the very thing that sent the rifleman below all combat professions. That curse should NEVER come back. no... find another way. You can find another way right? I would HOPE no one is that lacking in creativity. There is no amount of "tweeking" that compensates for it. dear god do you folks NOT remember the many deaths at the hands of mobs that others blew through w/o a second thought???
Cakins7005,
I have seen this complaint before on the melee forums, that, because Riflemen get a melee defense modifier, that somehow that makes them a better tank than "many tank classes." That is absurd.
First, it is kind of funny how people making this complaint do not look at their own classes and see the ranged defense modifers they get and question why they get that. Apparently, it is perfectly reasonable that someone should be able to havea ranged defense modifier when they have no ranged weapon at all, yet when they get up on someone with a chunk of metal the size of the T21 in their hands that this person should somehow be completely defenseless against melee attack.
Second, this is only one of a slew of factors that go into determining damage taken from an attack. It is, in fact as I understand it, a balancing factor against accuracy and chance to hit. They have said that they are improving melee chance to hit, so that nullifies the argument right there. But even so,there are many other factors that go into defense. For instance, as a 2H Swordman, I not only get Counter attack, but I can center myself and greatly improve my chances of successfully counterattacking. And I have watched the combat window and seen Counterattack nullifying many otherwise successful attacks. Granted, Counterattack is not doing everything it is supposed to do (i.e., cause unblockable damage when it sticks), but it is increasing my defenses. But guesswhat? Block for Rifleman is broken. It is not doing what it is supposed to do at all. So the fact that the plus to melee defense may (or may not) be higher than it should be is irrelevent.
But even so, to suggest that Riflemen can tank because of this one modifier is ridiculous. If that were the case, Riflemen would be standing toe-to-toe with meleers and prevailing. But experience suggests that this is not the case. If it were, you would not see posts on these boards telling people who were defeated by a melee profession that they were idiots for standing there taking a beating instead of kiting. Rifleman are tanks? I do not think so. If that were the case, I would not have spent points on Swordsman to pickup melee defenses (as well as complimentary mind attacks).
But as I said before, it is really pointless to suggest that things need to be changed when we are only one patch into a multipatch complete combat system revamp. The Devs have already said things are out of balance and will be until all the changes are in place. So I give you similar advice I gave my fellow riflemen. Sit back, take a neutron pixie, and relax. Things as they are now are not how they will be.
Like Sotaudi has already said.. we need to wait and see what happens with the combat re-vamp, nobody is going to know how all the combat classes are going to gel together until it is complete.
I'm just hoping ( and I'm sure the SOE employees wont be this silly ) that the Devs don't listen to all the Nerf crying and make some changes before they have finished all of the Combat Changes. I really hope they don't do anything like this just to shut up a small group of people with inane Forum Spamming ablilities and bad tempers.
Dynastar wrote:
As a former Master Pikeman, I don't really understand why a Master Rifleman had more melee defense than me.
I don't quite understand that either... I can only assume that the extra + 20 melee defence was put in after one of the monthly publishes to compensate a little for the 2.5x melee damage penalty ( which was removed later ). I'm betting it will go or be somewhat negated when the combat re-balance is finished.
/shrug