Politician Archive
Thread: Design Flaw: Granted Zoning Rights not remembering Citizens
Last Thursday, I was granted permission to join the city I was tasked to become Mayor of this Thursday.
Tonight I decide to swap my Generic house for a Corellian one, so redeed it.
Well guess what?
Yep, can't rebuild until the current Mayor re-permits me.
Two questions:
1) Does this mean the 26 people who have voted for me so far will need to revote for me on Thursday?
2) Does this mean that since I'm outside the original first 24 hour period of placement that I need to go through the normal startup of waiting 7 days to become a citizen?
If both are true, I will have a followup post tomorrow. And it won't be a good one.
/grantzoningrights only lasts for 24 hours by design
Darniaq wrote:
Last Thursday, I was granted permission to join the city I was tasked to become Mayor of this Thursday.
Tonight I decide to swap my Generic house for a Corellian one, so redeed it.
Well guess what?
Yep, can't rebuild until the current Mayor re-permits me.
Two questions:
1) Does this mean the 26 people who have voted for me so far will need to revote for me on Thursday?
2) Does this mean that since I'm outside the original first 24 hour period of placement that I need to go through the normal startup of waiting 7 days to become a citizen?
If both are true, I will have a followup post tomorrow. And it won't be a good one.
I know what the design is. We immediately closed our borders knowing precisely what the command did.
But the Flaw is that it needs to be constantly reapplied to all current Citizens. That seems really ill-conceived. It effectively means that a person, regardless of how long they've been a Citizen, needs to get permission from the Mayor (and eventually the Militia) every single day to place a structure?
If you're a citizen, which by extension means you've been granted zoning rights once, you should keep those zoning rights while you own a residence in the city (or are Mayor). If you redeed your house, you should have the very same 24 hour grace period afforded by the granting to be able to declare residency in a new house.
I can't blame this on Test Center, because privatized cities didn't come right away and the command moved to Novice Politician late in that cycle. But come on! Nobody thought that residents may want to move their houses to conform to a layout sometime during the first week when no Mayor plays 24/7 anyway?
I don't think this is really an oversight on the developer's part - how often do you really plan on having people moving their houses around? It shouldn't be that common.
Lol, let me get this straight, you understand the granted zoning rights butare complaining that it forgets the citizens, which means you don't understand it at all. This is no bug or nothing wrong with the system, it has always been 24 hours and thats the main reason why you have granted zoning rights. Its allows people just enough time to place their structure and thats it, its not a means of giving people admin rights to the city.
Maller Malice
Mayor of New Aldera
Being uncommon is not the same as improbable. We planned to change our layout four times between now and Metropolis, because there will be more structures that come along and some redestricting that occurs as a result of the geography of the land we have founded upon. Lacking terraforming nor even really any terrain surveying tools, it's nigh impossible to plan a city down to exact placements entirely ahead of time. Changes will need to be made.
It's simply a two case scenario:
Case 1:
1. Person undeclares residence
1.1 They have 24 hours to redeclare there
Case 2:
2. Person redeeds structure
2.1 They have 24 hours to replace structure within city bounds.
During BOTH cases they are citizens for 24 hours. Let's face it, being instantly de-citizened doesn't make much sense, and less so the length of time someone has been a citizen, and far less so considering how many votes that citizen had received.
If the person wishes to become a citizen of a new City, it's an instant toggle. They place in the new city, declare and are now flagged as no longer being a citizen of the old one.
Seriously, this never happened on Test?!
tiberian_death wrote:
Lol, let me get this straight, you understand the granted zoning rights butare complaining that it forgets the citizens, which means you don't understand it at all. This is no bug or nothing wrong with the system, it has always been 24 hours and thats the main reason why you have granted zoning rights. Its allows people just enough time to place their structure and thats it, its not a means of giving people admin rights to the city.
Dude, attitude aside, you completely misunderstood what I'm saying.
I am already a citizen of the city
Being granted the rights to place was the price paid to become the citizen. Now that I am a citizen, I immediately and without warning lost my citizenship the exact moment I redeeded my house.
Again. I know how it works. I know why it works. I just don't think anyone considering post-citizenship building movement/swapping.
I'm screwed. Based on the information I've been able to amass, I'll get back in the game tomorrow, will have lost the 2600 XP I would have gotten on Thursday, may very well need to wait 7 days before becoming a citizen valid to run for mayor again and effectively dash the hopes of a month's long effort. But at least we got the City. And at least the 26 votes will revert to the incumbant. This was a great deal of effort dashed in a single moments action in an untested and unconsidered interface behavior. That's not new. I've been playing SOE MMOGs for four years now.
But this needs review. I am not the only one who could have encountered this bug. But if the above does transpire as described, the entirety of the current playerbase will learn about it so that they do not suffer the same problem.
Darniaq wrote:
Dude, attitude aside, you completely misunderstood what I'm saying.
I am already a citizen of the city
Not anymore, you lost citizenship as soon as your residence went away.
Being granted the rights to place was the price paid to become the citizen. Now that I am a citizen, I immediately and without warning lost my citizenship the exact moment I redeeded my house.
Again. I know how it works. I know why it works. I just don't think anyone considering post-citizenship building movement/swapping.
That's exactly why they do grant zoning rights, to prevent people from wantanly placing their house anywhere. It is not designed just to keep outside people out. What you are asking for is a private city, but cities aren't private.
I'm screwed. Based on the information I've been able to amass, I'll get back in the game tomorrow, will have lost the 2600 XP I would have gotten on Thursday, may very well need to wait 7 days before becoming a citizen valid to run for mayor again and effectively dash the hopes of a month's long effort. But at least we got the City. And at least the 26 votes will revert to the incumbant. This was a great deal of effort dashed in a single moments action in an untested and unconsidered interface behavior. That's not new. I've been playing SOE MMOGs for four years now.
It was very well tested and it works exactly as intended. You are only a citizen as long as your primary residence is within city limits. You can only declare residence once a week to prevent city hopping (IE vote in a city for their election to give their mayor xp, then move to the next city and so on, since all elections happen at different types). If you lift up your house, your primary residence is gone.
But this needs review. I am not the only one who could have encountered this bug. But if the above does transpire as described, the entirety of the current playerbase will learn about it so that they do not suffer the same problem.
This still isn't a bug.
Cities are public locations. The zoning rights is not meant as a tool to keep the place private, they are meant as a tool to keep the layout under control, to actual do some city planning. Granting zoning rights has absolutely nothing to do with citizenship.
Once you pick up your primary residence, you are a wanderer again. Same thing if you transfer your primary residence to a new owner.
I already explained why you can't be a citizen again for a week.
1) When you declare residence in a house, that house is your residence until it is re-deeded or you declare residence elsewhere. You re-deeded your house, and it stopped being your residence. Hence, you are no longer residing in the city, and are no longer a citizen.
Note, however, that I have not tested the re-deeding case. It is *possible* that the deed remembers that you are residing in that house and that you'll become a citizen again when you place that house within the city. To be honest, though, I sincerely doubt it.
2) Zoning rights has nothing to do with citizenship. Citizens are not automatically allowed to place buildings in the city, non-citizens are not automatically forbidden to place buildings in the city. If zoning rights are active, *no-one* who has not been granted zoning rights by the mayor or a militia member may place a building, regardless of whether they're a citizen or not.
For case 2, your situation makes a reasonable example of why. Say the mayor is attempting to control building placement in order to keep the city design stable. If citizens were allowed to pick up their houses and move them to another place (or to place a second house anywhere they wished and then remove the first one), then they can mess with the city layout. I can already hear the argument: "But no responsible citizen would do that!" and, sadly, you're wrong.
I only wish I had the free lots to place houses for people in my city, since, well, people have a hard time placing buildings in the best places even when I tell them exactly where the building should go.Anyway, both of these mechanics have been adequately described and explained elsewhere. The behavior you experienced is not a bug--and if something led you to believe it worked differently, you should point out the erroneous documentation. If you believe the behavior should be different, you should ask for the policies to change. For example, ask that declaring residence is on a city-wide basis, so that if you have at least one house within city limits you do not automatically lose your citizenship status. This would allow for moving or changing houses in cases where citizenship would otherwise be lost. (For example, the resident of my town who placed his temporary old generic house and planned to upgrade to a Naboo house but will now have to wait a week until he can declare residency again before he re-places.)
1. Redeeding a house destroys residency. This is how it has always worked.
2. You must wait seven days after declaring residency before you can redeclare residency. Again, this is how it has always worked.
3. You must be a declared resident to be a citizen. Ditto.
4. You must be a citizen to run in the election. Ditto.
5. Zoning rights is a time limited ability. Ditto.
For reasons known only to yourself, you made an assumption that those rules had changed when you became a citizen, or that because you were running for mayor the rules were somehow different. They haven't changed and they aren't different for candidates.
You're only choice, at this point, is to let the incumbent have the votes, they take the skills you were planning on, do the things you were planning on doing, then you run in the next election and take different skills to compliment.
Being a mayor is alot about being patient.
Dude, attitude aside, you completely misunderstood what I'm saying.
I am already a citizen of the city
Being granted the rights to place was the price paid to become the citizen. Now that I am a citizen, I immediately and without warning lost my citizenship the exact moment I redeeded my house.
Again. I know how it works. I know why it works. I just don't think anyone considering post-citizenship building movement/swapping.
I'm screwed. Based on the information I've been able to amass, I'll get back in the game tomorrow, will have lost the 2600 XP I would have gotten on Thursday, may very well need to wait 7 days before becoming a citizen valid to run for mayor again and effectively dash the hopes of a month's long effort. But at least we got the City. And at least the 26 votes will revert to the incumbant. This was a great deal of effort dashed in a single moments action in an untested and unconsidered interface behavior. That's not new. I've been playing SOE MMOGs for four years now.
But this needs review. I am not the only one who could have encountered this bug. But if the above does transpire as described, the entirety of the current playerbase will learn about it so that they do not suffer the same problem.
Ok, I'll leave out the attuide this time because its quiet obvious thatyou don't understand how granting zone rights works. Its simple a mayor turns it on when they have no trust at all for their citizens to either repect or understand their layout for the city. In addition it ensures that a mayor doesn't have to come to their city and see that their citizens decided to take it upon themselves to pick up their house and put it somewhere else and in addition place a factory in the wrong spot or place harvesters where houses are going to go. Just because you become a citizen doesn't mean the mayor comes to you and automatically emails you the complete layout of the city to ensure that you know exactly where to build and not to build. This is why zoning rights are turned on and the Mayor can ensure that citizens and non citizens don't build anywhere they want.
Maller Malice
Mayor of New Aldera
A clarification please:
If I wait a week between placing my house can I redeed it and immediately declare residency?
If not this will wreak havoc on our city's plan for gradual expansion. We want to have quick growth by have many of the citizens eventually living in the outer fringes and reserve the city core for facilities including a market area with several vendor tents and shops.