Politician Archive
Thread: Cities are meant to actually have politics and turmoil that is gameplay
Dayln,
Im not trying to kid anyone.... I stated quit clearly what power the Mayor has. It is ONLY the power to restrict STRUCTURES.
If you think otherwise then you obviously don't understand the game mechanics.
This precisely mimics the real world 'Democratic' process. I as a resident of the United states am permitted to purchase any residential property I like free from discrimination. If I purchase a property within a towns corporate limits I am then entitled legally to vote in elections within the town. I CANNOT just start building anywhere I please within said city.
Tell me again why Mayors in this game shouldn't have that power?
In fact Mayors in the game suffer a number of restrictions that arent in place in the real world. In the real world an entity such as a town or county can excercise eminent domain (compulsory purchase in the UK) and force a citizen out of their property. In SWG once an undesirable is inside the city it is impossible to force them out (assuming they are stuborn).
Apparently you are already living in a real world Kingdom over there on the West Coast because I pretty darn certain you live under the same real world restrictions that you find so abhorent in this game.
Your last paragraph...
"The problem is that most people dont want to be a politician, they dont want to be a mayor, they want to be an absolute dictator. And the game rules favor them over people that want to be what the class really is, a politician."
...is almost completely incorrect. Politics in this game works almost exactly the same way as it does in real life...youcan campaign and persuade the people to vote for you. If you get more votes you win.The only difference, and one I happen to think is pretty much required in a game, is that those that are happy with thestatus quo are not required to re-register their vote. This is fairly important given that alot of people only have limited playing time anyway. You could argue that this particular mechanic should change, and you would have some legitimate argument, but suggesting that politics doesnt work in the game is silly.
What you are seeing is not a function of a failed democratic process... but a function of the fact that the politician class requires xp in order to allow a city to get its goodies. Pretty much everyone realises that in order for their town to get the facilities that they want it is more efficient tonot split the voting at this time. I think this could well change once there are a number of experienced Politicians on the servers.
You should feel free to run against the incumbant Mayor of the town you just moved to. Im sure the other residents would all be thrilled that you are splitting the vote and thereby holding the towns development back.
You need to temper your desire for a rampant democracy with the realisation that in this game it doesnt necessarily make for a very efficient form of government.
You don't want to live in my Kingdom? If there is something you would like me to do for Asylum all you have to do is ask, just like all the other citizens. They figured out without any problem that im here to help them. I guess thats why 3 guilds and some independants voted unanimously for me 
Yes you are trying to kid people,
if I come to your city ( assume I am someone you dont know )to place a house so I become a citizen, can you stop me from placing a house in within your city limits..... yes you can. You should not have that power.
We certainly dont have the power in my city to keep someoone from another city to move into a house here. And as soon as they move in they can vote whether we want them too or not.
I dont understand why you are trying to kid me on this, you know it is true, and so do I. Who do you think you are fooling?
The problem with zoneing restriction in game is it contorlsWHO can move in, it does not control what it should, which is "this area is good for housing, anyone wanting to build a house ( current citicezn or not ) should be able to build there".
Dayln wrote:if I come to your city ( assume I am someone you dont know ) to place a house so I become a citizen, can you stop me from placing a house in within your city limits..... yes you can. You should not have that power.
We certainly dont have the power in my city to keep someoone from another city to move into a house here. And as soon as they move in they can vote whether we want them too or not.
Dayln,
Stop comparing this game to the real world. If I wanted the real world I would play SimCity.
This is Star Wars. We DO HAVE the abilty to keep people out, along with the abilty to enslave entire races and blow planets apart with a huge laser beam.
Imperial controlled cities are just that IMPERIAL CONTROLLED. Tightly controlled.
Stop thinking modern day USA and start thinking 1940's Germany. Then you might start to get a clue.
Dayln wrote:You dont get it, your imperial control would still work, in fact my way it would be easier for someone to take political control of an existing city. You would still have your dictatorships based on the size of your PA.
I am not against your style of play, I am against your style of play being shoved down everyone elses throat. I want the rules to be fair.
Right now the rules favor absolute dictatorships, i want the rules to favor neither democracies nor dictatorships.
You're right about one thing, I don't get it. In this quote:
Dayln wrote:if I come to your city ( assume I am someone you dont know ) to place a house so I become a citizen, can you stop me from placing a house in within your city limits..... yes you can. You should not have that power.
You are telling me that Mayors shouldn't have the power to stop someone from placing a house in my city. As far as I'm concerned, that's a pretty big break in my Imperial control.
As far as "my style of play being shoved down everyone else's throat", that's obviously NOT THE CASE. You can have a democratic city anywhere else you want, except for the 1km redius that I control.
There are plenty of cities that are democratic. Stop trying to shove your style of play down my throat.
BigGuy_WAN wrote:
I agree... totally... as I have said before SWG is not Sim City... you are notbuilding a city for yourself... but for all of SWG... EVERYONE should be able to have the ability to take that city over... its part of life.... Invasions HAPPEN...if that is too hard to grasp then just don't do it... PA Halls and group towns are avaliable...Cities are not toys or Guild Halls.... they ARE public.... whether you want to accept that or not... I hate when people force stupid changes to make the game unrealistic because they simply can't have their way.... SWG is an on-line world not a game... and should simulate a realistic Star Wars type life as much as possible... if you want a break from life there is always Doom2 and Sim City and a good DVD to watch....
So by your standards, we should go back to full-on PvP all the time, no cloning, and if you don't have insurance, your items don't just decay 5%, they're gone, because your corpse would be lootable.
This would be the ultimate in "simulate a realisitc Star Wars type life as much as possible". You sure you want to be a part of that?
There need to be some checks and balances so that the idiot minority doesn't take advantage of everyone else who understands that this game isn't Jedi Academy and isn't based solely around combat and war. I have no problem with people moving into a city to participate in the democratic process and make it a better place to live. If the mayor is subesquently replaced, well that's just the way things work in a democracy. But sieging with the sole intention of winning the election and then tearing down the city hall to move it elsewhere is simply wrong.
Almost no cities are democratic in SWG, not one, they are all dictatorships to one degree or another. I am trying to promote more than just your one style. I am not oppoised to your style, I jsut do not think **edit** should be the only way.
The problem is mayors have too much power.
I understand that you dont get it, and that you are never likely too.
Your style IS beling shoved down everyone elses throat. Because mayors have too much power. They need to cut that power back a bit. make you fight for control as a politican, not automatic control just becase you are the bozo that placed the town hall.
Dayln,
Mayors in the real world do have such power. Consider this example:
A mayor of a small town decides that the town needs to stop growing for a short time (for whatever reason, this is hypothetical) and stops granting building permits to developers for a year. During that time, no new housescan bebuilt, so the only citizens that can move into the town are those that replace citizens who are leaving.
This is EXACTLY how zoning rights work in the game. Just because you cannot place new buildings willy-nilly within the town limits does not preclude you from moving in. You just need to find someone who is moving out and buy their house.
And I would bet that real life mayors use this power in a dictatorial manner or to "keep out undesireables" more than you would guess. If I was mayor and the Hells Angels came to me with an application to build a new clubhouse, you can bet that they wouldn't get a building permit.
I'm not sure exactly what your alternateproposal is, but it sounds more like anarchy than a democracy or dictatorship, which is what you claim to want a balance of. If you want to allow anyone to set down structures wherever they like in your city, without a thought to organization of planning,that's your business. The city I am currently helping to build(you'll note that I didn't refer to it as "my city") will not be like that.
Dalyn...
but also consider... these powers is to also help the casual player.. I personally don't have time to keep everyone in check.. (that would be too much work) I do have patrol people (killing mobs that are close to our city) but they also need to earn a living.. (go to mission and such) so they can buy all the nice stuff and help pay for the city....
It is a double edge sword. Granted in a "real life" situation anyone can move in.. and it is up to the people to defend it..... I personally cannot defend it 20/7 (gives 4 hours of down time give or take hehe) nor can all the citizens... thus there must be other mechanism to protect them.
In the past, our "pre-city" on tatooine was set up pretty nice. we had lots of houses and neighbors.. every once in a while (well a lot of times) we have harvestors plant in front of our hall, factories, and such that are not ours.. we have no control... no way to contact them.. nothing.. they just block our progress in some areas we have plan... nothing we can do.
the zoning rights does give the city some control on who can and cannot place.. which is nice.. I am sure if it is totally free.. you wouldn't want someone to place 4 large and 10 smalls harvestors in front of your city hall where you left some spot for civic expansion would you? what if they ALL have over 100k credits... they will last practically forever... and guess what?? you can't tell who they are.... this is not a good thing....
Militia.. in any city.. you must have some sort of defense against PC and NPC.. the ban powers comes in handy when warding off unwanted PC. I'm sure our militia (I hope) won't abuse that power when the time comes)
I have been reading and you feel the mayor have too much power.. I feel it is lacking coming from a casual player view.. I want to role play.. I want to enjoy my game.. I want to enjoy other people who have similar view and live together in a city.. I do want to make a city great.. money is not the final means.. I give up all kinds of resources (forgo making money) to builda city and give it to the people.... to see it tear down after all that effort would be a shame...
That is why the mayor should have that much power to protect.. but I also feel there should be check and balance in everything.. like a mayor cannot destroy the city hall at willl.... not without enough votes from his/her supporters... I feel that a mayor should assign city planners to lay out what the city progress should be (like in real life) and allocate land for those projects... a mayor should be able to tell who owns the home by clicking on the sign (like in real life.. if they are in the way.. you could negotiate or pay them to move...)
this type of interaction I am looking for.. this type of play style I like to encounter.. if our mayor is doing a bad job and another can do better.. sure.. lets vote him/her into office.. and lets see how that is done... if someone else wants to do the job.. sure.. why not!! but I do not want our city to get tear down just because someone was jealous of our chance (I did plant mine 11:30 PM.. note the PM Central time.. that is over 13 hours after patch time... THIRTEEN!!!!) so a lot of people had the chance.. I work till late.. came on.. built the hall and went out and plant it.. (well I did some pre-survey) and such.... but still...
Those who do not wish to move.. well.. that is their own fault... I have a certain need for accomplishment and this city is my grand project (by providing all the buildings... at no cost to the citizen) and I hope if I ever leave SWG.. that this city will continue after I'm gone.
also like to note.. our PA wanted a city for a long time (since day 1 of SWG) we plan for it.. we work toward it... even have it lay out nice and neat (on tatooine) but that didn't happen (miss it.. heard it was filled in less than 30 minutes)
so... the need of a city is greater than the memories of home.. so we spend the next 4-5 days moving to datooine (After initial establishment)
We are now finally situated.. somewhat and now moving toward our goal.. (but not as fast as some other cities out there)
You can always tell when you have won an arguement with a kid, they drop to personal attacks and grammer and spelling because they cant stand up the the discussion
Back to the adults.
Posi, itIS a matter of taste, but as is they should stop calling them player cities and stop caling that class politician. As clear as I can say it. Lets say you have a city that is size 4, you have zoning rights on. I want to become a voting citicezn in your city, but I am not currently. Can you stop me? The answer is yes. I disagree with that power.
Chi-bi
You are also correct, and I agree the developers are trying hard, it is impossible to please everyone.
I just wish they would start by pleaseing me 
On the bright side, I ahve yet to hear anything bad about how they are implementing vehicles. I like everything I have heard so far ( not counting bugs )
BlindTyldak wrote:
I'm with Positronic. A competative mayoral race against citizens of a town for the betterment of the community is one thing. Another group coming in and voting for their favorite person with the sole intent of getting the other out of power for their own purposes, whether it be to take the town over, destroy it, whatever, is NOT "fun".
All I can think of when I read these posts about town seiging being good is Trammel vs. Fellucia. For those of you who didn't play UO, I'll give you a little background.
Back when the game UO started, it was PvP all the time. You had no choice. While many thought that it added an element of realism to the game world, it quickly became a major pain in the arse for a great number of players, because they would get randomly killed for no reason. A blacksmith would be walking back from the mine and *WHAM* a fireball would knock him dead, the player who killed him would take a quick peek in his pack for anything good (which there never was, as people had learned never to carry valubles), and then move on. Someone out hunting in the woods would get set upon by other players fo no reason whatsoever. After six months, people started quitting out of frustration. What was the point of playing a game where all of your hard work, even if it was just time, could be interupted for someone else's idea of fun?
After watching the game population plummet for a while, Origin tried something new: they split the world into mirror images, and called them Fellucia (PvP) and Trammel (PvE). People flocked over to Trammel and began having fun in the game, as they could now elect whether or not they wanted to be attackable. If they wanted to fight that day, they went to Fellucia. Done with fighting? Go back to Trammel. It's been this way ever since.
The PvP'ers have also been screaming bloody murder ever since, because Fellucia is always completely empty; the game population at any time is 90% Trammel. According to them, people who play on Trammel are carebears, who have no idea how FUN PvP is, feeling the blood pounding in your veins as you try to sneak around and protect your goods, or pouncing on someone unsuspecting. The PvE'ers of course, say that they are perfectly happy being able to keep their hard work, they are having fun in their own way, and that those interested in PvP can all get together and fight whenever they want.
Recently Origin (EA, whatever) tried something new, to try to get people back over to Fellucia and keep those who were advocates of PvP happy: they doubled the amount of resources on that side, to try to entice people to go over there for the double profits. No one went for it. Fellucia is still a ghost town.
It shows that in gaming, people like to be able to choose their battles. What's fun is accomplishment, and having someone come along because they have more friends and higher skills and just take it from you is not fun. It's not blood-pounding, it's not exciting, its stupid. If a group decides to have a nice, quiet little town where you have to have something in common with them to live there, deal with it. If you want to muscle your way in and get voted in yourself because you have 30 friends as opposed to someone elses 25, go do it with someone who shares your playstyle, because most of us are NOT interested.
~~Shabhaii, Mayor of Tombra, Naboo
www.cityoftombra.com
The REAL BT
(Snitter): There isn't any island, Rowf...
(Rowf): There is... there... can't you see it... Our island...just stay with me.. I'll get you there...
Shabhaii...
...
I /tip my hat to you, Sir.
After reading your your post, I didn't need to read any farther. You hit it right on the head of the nail.
Give us the right to have fun and not have to deal with lamers. At the very least,they could restrict it so that anything considered a "high level" city would be open to something that would make the PVPers happy.
Let those of us who just want a smaller, friendly, productive city to live in, do it in peace.