Politician Archive
Thread: Cross-server citizen swap to get around the 10 person cap
AnitaSWG wrote:
This is BEYOND lame.
I personally didn't believe that people would take these "private cities" to the extreme the doomsayers were predicting. Boy, was I wrong!
I met the mayor of Ghost Town in game (who posted above).. and all I can say is that I am saddened and disgusted that people would rather have fake residents than open their doors to people who actually play on their server. Never mind the fact that all these fake residents will vote for the encumbant! I would never join a city (or patronize any vendors there) if I knew that it wasn't even comprised of real people.
What the heck is the point of a 5 person city, or a 7 person one? Just to get a mission terminal? Like the missions are that great on the starter planets.
I honestly hope that SOE comes up with some way to stop this..
Ri'a
I can only assume you didn't mean me - since I have many more real citizens than "ghost" citizens. (well thatand I have never met you I don't think 
) And I never really planned on mission terminals in my town, we mainly wanted the gardens and fountains - we are sort of roleplayers I guess you could say...
As to your 5 person or 7 person city argument, what is the point of a 10 person city? 20 person? 30 person etc.? Some big guilds probably think that only 100 plus person cities should be allowed, because those are "real cities"...
I think much of the problem here is that the term "city" was used both as the whole system and as a particular level/class of "city" hehe. It really should have been player communities or something - because that is what it is about. Otherwise why not just have class 5 the only option?
I'll jump in on this as well.... pathetic and lame don't begin to describe my feelings on this.
don't have enough people to have a city? then dont' make a city... let me twist what someone else said around a bit... there's no limit on the number of outposts... ok great, so when you get 10 people who actively play on your server that you enjoy spending time with THEN form your city. If you can't find 10 people on an entire server that you want to spend time with, i'm not really sure what the heck of playing this game is.
while i was sad for those who missed out on getting cities initially, i never said anything about the smaller groups who got cities first because I felt they deserved that right as much as anyone. but to see this being twisted so badly makes me feel ill.
for those who say unlimited numbers, well, yes but there is eventually a cap as the planets will simply only support so many cities ultimately. I also met the gentleman from ghost town and while you were a pleasant enough individual you can be certain that I and others will not be visiting your town in the future if this is how you intend to keep it going. I'm disappointed that there aren't more people that see whats ultimately wrong with this.
I'm going to leave this thread before my stomach turns any more.
Okay I just realized there is actually a "ghost-town" so you weren't implying me hehe sorry about the confusion.
One question. Let's say I was a millionare, so I just bought 50 accounts and made a big city - is that worse, better, or the same as this? Honestly curious as a purely intellectual matter as to how the other side to this debate's value system would deal with that.
just as bad... its not real people.... i have 2 accounts now as well, but i will not put them in the same city for many different reasons, this is just one of them, but its at least as important as any other.
i know i got off on a rant before but i truly think this is a horrid thing.... there are a lot of people on every server who want to be an active part of a city... many different sizes of cities. why not give those people the opportunity to play the game rather than excluding them for fake citizens?
Obviously its not to meet new people or live with them. Why do you want a outpost then? So you can place gardens, fountains, and noone else can in your "yard"?
Player Cities were not introduced so individuals could decorate the landscape around thier house. You are abusing the system and griefing players on your server in the process. Yes, griefing. You are "hogging" the city slot right now and will always hog it. Since you were one of the original city layers, you will retain this spot until your city hall is destroyed. So while you maintain your fake little outpost, another group of serious city builders are tough out of luck. That's how you're griefing, just so you can build "gardens" around your houses and control some land.
You want us to explain our side to you on "intellectual" terms. If you can't see our side, then there's no point in even explaining it, other than to tell you you're going down. If you don't change your city philosophy them I'm sure Customer Service will. You might laugh at that, but when there's 1000 screaming players on your server pissed about not having a city, and then there's you, a well known city cheat (just so you can build gardens); there will be something done about it.
If you truly wanted just an outpost, then why don't you contact customer service about allowing you to destroy your current city hall (if they replace it with another), and build it again next week when the outpost patch hits? This way a serious group can have the city slot. I'm willing to bet you won't even consider doing this because of the big power play this is for you.
All you've successfully done is make it more un-enjoyable for the rest of us with a new nerf/change that will have to be added to compensate for your unethical behavior.
So you're not a social guy? You don't like making friends online? No problem. Just don't ruin the experience for everyone that does.
This is all BS... This is buying elections from players on other servers in return for their votes on their servers... Sheesh, I don't know how this exploit will be handled...
This is just wrong...
Ropock wrote:
don't have enough people to have a city? then dont' make a city... let me twist what someone else said around a bit... there's no limit on the number of outposts... ok great, so when you get 10 people who actively play on your server that you enjoy spending time with THEN form your city. If you can't find 10 people on an entire server that you want to spend time with, i'm not really sure what the heck of playing this game is.
Some of us have a number of friends. Good friends, lots of people we play with...who are in PAs. I am not in a PA, and do not wish to be, having been burnt out on guilds a long time ago. Most of my friends are in PAs, and are adding their citizenship to the PA's town. They can't add it to mine. I don't want to join the PA.
Just as some people enjoy the thought of running a little shop in a game, having to pay vendors and keep them stocked, so do some people enjoy the thought of having a little town. In real life, what is the point of a city with just a handful of people? Well, some people enjoy that lifestyle. I enjoy the thought of having the same in the place I play.
I don't deride people for wanting an 80-person city. Frankly, I think it's insane beyond belief. I also have little chance of ever being elected as mayor of a city, as my Politician is also my pure crafter. I play actively on both my accounts, but I obviously spend more time with my combatant. I'd like to be able to take a city and shape it. I'd like to sculpt my dream, and I was originally told I could do this with five people. Now that this has been changed, in the debacle of miscommunication that was the release of cities, I have to pick up the pieces and make something of what's left. I have six other people's hopes with me on that.
What if I'd just like nice, slow growth? The thought of starting something small now, so that I can say, "Look, see? We have someplace for you to go." It's far easier to recruit quality if you have something formed up. Otherwise, people become discouraged and wander off.
I would like to provide a nice service to people. An out of the way place from which to do missions, a nice area to be in. I'm sorry if you don't care for my play style. I probably don't care for yours, but I also don't complain about it. My idea of fun, my vision, my "city of my dreams" is a little tiny thing with a pleasant place to sit and roleplay. I won't tell you how to play, or inform you that the way you have fun is wrong. I'm not hurting anyone.
Oh, and by the way...some people enjoy playing these games, not to be exposed to the masses of hoi polloi that invade such creations, but to spend time with small groups of distant friends. There isn't anything wrong with that, just like there isn't anything wrong with spending time in huge hoardes. Kindly refrain from calling people who choose this "pathetic" and "lame". You may not like it, but some do. There's room for all kinds here.
On the same note, I would rather have "ghost" citizens than having some dildo-head come in and ruin MY city and MY game. I enjoy quality people and I will allow QUALITY people into my town only!!!
Tro Thorns
The Town of Lake Destiny
Outpost for life
East of Keren, Naboo
Ahazi Server
That's right, if you're on the Ahazi server and weren't fast enough to get a city hall down on Naboo, feel free to thank Tro for all his hard work. Without Tro, who would use a valuable 1 of only 10 city slots on the most popular Player city planet? I played on Ahazi in beta, and now for the first time I'm glad I left the server.
Also don't forget to visit this ghost town to enjoy the nicely placed gardens as this town is perma-froze in Outpost status (since outpost is the only goal set for Lake Destiny). As you wait a month, even more, for more city slots to open up, just remember, Tro probably took your spot. But wait, he pays 15 bucks like everyone else right? I guess 15 bucks entitles each and every one of us to ruin the experience of 100's of others for as long as we play the game. According to Tro's ethics, yes. As long as he can place some badly needed gardens around his house.
Now Tro, you might think I went overboard with this. But since you seem to be so proud of what you're doing, you should read this rant and think heck yea thats me and thats what I'm all about. Since you dont understand the "intelligence" behind our values, then maybe something like this will help you comprehend how pissed off 90% of SWG players will feel when hearing of your great Playground, i mean city. I for one would never visit or do business in your city or have anything to do with you or those condoning your behavior, and that's my right. Luckily I don't play on Ahazi.
Oh, how judgmental, Jean. You don't know this person. You think an 80 person PA has more right to place a city than a 5 person team? You are a dirty elitist and I'm glad the Devs did what they did.
JeanLaffite wrote:
Player Cities were not introduced so individuals could decorate the landscape around thier house. You are abusing the system and griefing players on your server in the process. Yes, griefing. You are "hogging" the city slot right now and will always hog it. Since you were one of the original city layers, you will retain this spot until your city hall is destroyed. So while you maintain your fake little outpost, another group of serious city builders are tough out of luck. That's how you're griefing, just so you can build "gardens" around your houses and control some land.
You want us to explain our side to you on "intellectual" terms. If you can't see our side, then there's no point in even explaining it, other than to tell you you're going down. If you don't change your city philosophy them I'm sure Customer Service will. You might laugh at that, but when there's 1000 screaming players on your server pissed about not having a city, and then there's you, a well known city cheat (just so you can build gardens); there will be something done about it.
I'm not sure I understand this.
For the most part, the people discussing doing this are only asking for about three people to fill out the ten of an outpost, when we already had the (originally required) five. I sure don't want twenty people. Or thirty. I, personally, would not ponder using this sort of thing to take away from a serious group wanting a serious city. That would be wrong.
Outposts of 10 to 19 do not use a city slot. They don't rob anyone of anything. And, by Thunderheart's statement, they are what many players want to occur. If I'm not taking anything away from anyone, and I'm just spending my credits on maintenance, exactly what do you care? It doesn't hurt you, does it? If you'd like to be in my town, why, you're perfectly welcome to say, "Hey, I'd like to live here," and we can talk about that. Does my garden harm you somehow? My mission terminal? You can use it, just like I can.
On the flip side, I would not ever loan my lots out on another server to someone desiring to cheat. That hurts everyone, and before you say, "Yeah, but would you check?" be certain that I would. Already have plenty? I'll take my house down, give back the deed, and delete the character. I will not be used, and, I think, most people in this discussion would not, either.
I do see your side. I understand the potential for abuse. I hope they will change this to where a vote is not automatically for the incumbent, but a null vote, so that active people only may put in the mayor. Maybe you have to log in once every two weeks, or every month, or even every week, to maintain citizenship. That would be fine with me, too. Perhaps a system where if over half of your houses are "empties" made by people who have logged in X amount of time, your city poofs. That would eliminate the abuse (or help to), while allowing those of us who need "just three more" to have our little places.
Or, even better...change Outposts back to five. If they aren't counting against city caps, does it matter?
JeanLaffite wrote:
For all the kitties just tuning in, here's the info on Tro, the creator of this brilliant idea:
Tro Thorns
The Town of Lake Destiny
Outpost for life
East of Keren, Naboo
Ahazi Server
That's right, if you're on the Ahazi server and weren't fast enough to get a city hall down on Naboo, feel free to thank Tro for all his hard work. Without Tro, who would use a valuable 1 of only 10 city slots on the most popular Player city planet? I played on Ahazi in beta, and now for the first time I'm glad I left the server.
Also don't forget to visit this ghost town to enjoy the nicely placed gardens as this town is perma-froze in Outpost status (since outpost is the only goal set for Lake Destiny). As you wait a month, even more, for more city slots to open up, just remember, Tro probably took your spot. But wait, he pays 15 bucks like everyone else right? I guess 15 bucks entitles each and every one of us to ruin the experience of 100's of others for as long as we play the game. According to Tro's ethics, yes. As long as he can place some badly needed gardens around his house.
For all the rest of the kiddies just tuning in...
The hotfix to make outposts not count against city cap totals is going in this coming week. So Tro's city will soon not count against those precious ten, and then, some other quick-fingered individual can get their city down.
If we're going to become unpleasant, let's do so with all the facts, shall we? I didn't see a need for this in an otherwise intellectual and positive discussion on the ethics of the tactic. The two sides may not agree, but we can certainly debate this in a mature fashion, can't we?
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I'm sorry if you don't care for my play style. I probably don't care for yours, but I also don't complain about it. My idea of fun, my vision, my "city of my dreams" is a little tiny thing with a pleasant place to sit and roleplay. I won't tell you how to play, or inform you that the way you have fun is wrong. I'm not hurting anyone.
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"I won't tell you how to play, or inform you that the way you have fun is wrong. I'm not hurting anyone."
Yes, you are hurting people. You are using a highly sought after and limited city slot. Just so you can have a small town of 10 people (9 of which don't even play on the server with this tactic), and call this your land. That is as wrong as wrong can get. Your rights as a player and hell your rights as a citizen in the United States extend as far as to when you start infringing on the gameplay and rights of others.
So when you're abusing the whole purpose of player cities just to have your own little fancy yard or fulfull your play style agenda, you are breaking the rules and hurting others. If there was no limit on player cities, this would be an entirely different debate. But there are limits, and taking one of the city slots with your inent is wrong. You should delete now and wait until outposts are in that don't count against the city limit cap. (Talk to CS, I'm sure they would be willing to work with you)
Noone says you have to socialize in game. This is your right. You say you can't meet quality players in game; the reason is your "play style" or social style not other players. I have met at least 150 quality players if not more on Lowca alone, and I have high standards in friendship. These are people I would call friends, not just random acquantances. Now on the other side, I've probably ran across 300+ jerks that I don't like. My point is you are the reason you're not coming across quality players in game, not that there aren't any. It is your right to be a more reserved and "solo" type player; however you don't have the right to use the power of game mechanics to ruin gameplay for at least 100's of others, just because you want gardens and a private town.
These are player cities, meant to be cities, not private estates or towns. If you want a private estate then contact Sony and suggest it as a new feature, don't abuse the current system.
I can only compare this to someone getting a Jedi slot "just to check out the lightsaber once a week." How would people feel if Force sensitive slots were a first come first serve basis (however only 10 avialable), and someone took a slot just to play maybe 10 minutes a month for their personal pleasure. That's not what jedi were intended for and not fair for everyone else that is paying the same amount of money you are to play this game. You are ruining their experience at what price? Obviously none to you.