Politician Archive
Thread: Cities are meant to actually have politics and turmoil that is gameplay
Exactly right.
Mayors should NOT have the power to keep someone from moving into a city, and certainly not the power to keep citicezns from voting.
I actaully agree with your second point also.
Town halls should not have been craftable.
They should have deleted all unessessary buildings in NPC cities and thrown them open to players, ( You culd run for mayor of Theed ) and then dropped a few selected town halls themselves around the maps for players to build from.
Totally loose zoning rights
Just a general observation. This is an arguement, essentially which has been going on since the old boards (right BlindTyldak 
). It just seems to me that it's kinda selfish and silly that in a MMORPG some of us expect to just apply for the job and sit back on our laurels. Heck, SimCity is more of a challenge if you don't allow for the possibillity of hostile takeover, and really it shouldn't be! Part of the charm of playing with others is the unpredictable challenge of playing against real people. Certain things SHOULD be PvP, or have the possibillity exist. I happen to think that in a video game (where fake lives are at stake, and no real fortunes are on the line) politics and the market should be one of them, as long as the playing field is relatively level. If you don't want to play with others, or deal with people conflicting with your vision, why are you playing a multi-person game? Why not just go get SimCity and plan out your little paradise to your hearts content? Politics is all about dealing with people who don't agree with you, and making them go your way if you feel it is in the best intrests of the populace you are governing. What kind of politician are you if you aren't willing to sacrifice your job to do your job? If you're a politician you should be negotiating with people who allign against you. Heck you can always sick a militia on them and ban them all, if you think you can get away with it. What you shouldn't be able to do is hit the "incumbent for life" button, and sit back and say, "Ahh. As long as only my RL friends are citizens I am dictator for life!" Why? Because that's not a game. That's not Star Wars. That's not multi-player. That's stagnant and boring. What would you say to combat characters who asked for invincible armor or one shot kill weapons and the certs to use them at novice levels? Wouldn't you think that silly, and detrimental to game play?
Not to wish ill on anyone, but it is my sincere hope that all such ventures fail. It is my sincere hope that someone votes you out or the town clears out. But that's just me. This is just my opinion after all. Personally, however, I think it's pretty crappy to demand the game be changed to encourage this, as certain proponents of this philosophy have done.
How anyone could possibly one-star this post is beyond me. I had to give it 5 just so the world didn't look like it was completely upside-down and backwards.
Dayln wrote:
Not you personally Posi, but 95% of the town mayors out there. This is not any kind of personal attack. But because you and I know each other it is easier for me to direct it at you. But you do have lots of company.
Ah yes the contradiction......
My town is ( or was, it has been disbanded and we joining with another group of independents who have the same goal ) far from civilization. Because I am willing to fight the same fight that you are.
But I don’t want to do it by cheating.
I wouldn’t lock the PA hall so citizens cant vote
I don’t like the idea of ghost citizens ( I know you can ding me on this ). A ghost citizen is someone that doesn’t actually play on a server but just owns property there so that their vote automatically goes to the incumbent. ( I know I am schizophrenic, I my be guilty of things, but I would rather no one be able to do that )
I wouldn’t pepper an area of land with unused buildings in an effort to keep others from being able to live there.
Personally I would disable zoning rights, I would just allow a mayor to reserve a few small areas for futures civic buildings but NOT give him the power to keep others out.
The problem here is people want to be dictators, not mayors. They want to be kings, not politicians. They want to OWN the towns, not govern the towns. They want guaranteed control, not an open political system.
The way I see most cities right now, they are not cities at all, they are just new perks for PA's.
Do you think the democrats considered it a hostile takeover when republicans took over the congress? You better believe they did! Do you think the republicans considered it a hostile takeover when Clinton so soundly defeated Bush Sr, you better believe they did!
What you seem to mean by a hostile takeover is anyone that is not named Posi as mayor ( ok I am ribbing you a little this time ). That city is NOT yours, you lost it the moment you set down the town hall in my opinion. It belongs to whoever wants to live there.
That is not the way it is, but it is the way it should be.
I hate the way Player cities are implemented right now, because they are not player cities at all. They are jsut PA extentions.
Just because there is a voting mechanic in the game designed to let "some" players design a deocratic city with elections and campaigns, doesn't mean we are all going to play that way.
There is no implication that having a voting terminal automatically means that you are any kind of democracy. I'm an Imperial.
What some people aren't considering is that this is Star Wars and some of us are trying to play iron-fisted Imperial Governors.
You can have your nice democratic city somewhere else. We aren't having it. We don't have elections, we don't "campaign." We rule at the pleasure of the Emperor and my citizens, all being loyal Imperials, are behind this 100%.
If another group decides they want to "take over" our city, we will use whatever means necessary to prevent the Emperor's property falling into the wrong hands.
If someone can please tell me how I am supposed to role play a tight-fisted Imperial Governor while allowing open and free elections, I'd like to hear it!
Moral of the story: There is more than one way to rule a city. Just because the game allows for an election process, does not mean that all pleyers will make use of that. T
People may have an issue with the cap, but the cap was for all of us. I had the same chance of being left out in the cold holding a useless city hall deed as everyone else did. It just so happens that I didn't. Don't hate the player, hate the game.
In the end, I paid for this city hall. I placed this city hall. I can destroy this city hall. If you think, that I owe something to my intended conquerors, you have to be out of your freaking Rebel mind.
That's the will of the Emperor.
It's a big galaxy, you can find another place to live. Please stop trying to tell mayors what "you think they are doing wrong" or what they are "supposed" to be doing.
Dayln,
I don't think im making it easy for you at all...
You are against someones ability to stop a takeover by utilizing their lots to grab land... but at the same time you are all in favour of a hostile group being able to stage a takeover using the exact same tactic.. City border seiges.
Actualy your personalexperience had absolutely nothing to do with preventing a takeover.. it was done to prevent expension (as you yourself explained elsewhere). The circumstance under which this happened didn't suit you, so you claim it is unreasonable. I consider that rather hypocritical.
I didn't condone the use of 'Ghost' characters (whatever your definition of them is). I simply stated the 3 reasons i believe they are used. If you can argue that there is somereasonable way for Politicians to gain XP in a fashion similarto every other class then I am open to hear it. Every other class can chose to play more hours in order to grind xp and level faster.... not so Politicians. It isnt an Exploit when any other character can increase their rate of xp gain... curious you should think it is for this one. And EVERY player has the ability and right to create a character on EVERY server. There is NOTHING that says they have to play a certain amount in order for that character to be considered legitimate. Its strange.. people have been using cross server lot swapping since the game came out and no-one bitched dispite the enormous advantages it gave... not you complain about what, 100xp a week for the extra vote? Insane.
ANY collection of 10 or more players who are willing to work together and pay the maintenance of a city hall IS a city... whether or not you or I consider 10 is enough. I happen to think there is a size called outpost for a reason. Limiting the city services by citizen count instead of economic reasons is (as I already stated) one of the reasons for the cities to become artificially inflated.
'The Problem' Dayln is that you have absolutely no idea what I want in a city. You continue to infer that I want a dictatorship, when in fact there are currently as many people in my town that are NOT from my guild than those that are. They are ALL there by invitation. I have no guarantees of anything... but I intend to remain the Mayor by doing a better job than any competitor could hope to.
I hope that the 'You' that you are refering to is Mayors in general, because Im a little dissapointed if you were aiming any of this at me personaly. When your town is fully developed you can come back and talk to me about 'Living' and 'Political' cities.. until then these are just words. I would hazard a guess that 95%+ of the player base doesnt want to live in a city with the kinds of problems that a total lack of control would entail, and I doubt you would find it fun to try and run one in the midst of chaos either.
As to wether I want to fight for control... the simple answer is NO.. I DON'T. If I wanted to FIGHT for something I would be a Master Commando or Bounty Hunter. I have much better CONSTRUCTIVE things to do with my playing time. I willdo what's best for the city and the players in it. regardless of guild affiliatiion (as an example I let one of the other guilds set up the Cantina despite the fact that my guildmates also wanted to do it ... I felt the other character would do a better job for the town).
If the current citizens vote me out then thats fine. But am I interested in fighting one of these B**lls**t border sieges .. no way. What a great way to totally ruin a perfectly good system for cooperative, constructiveeffort . I dont think my citizens want their hard work wasted on this sort or rubbish either. If they did Im sure they could find one of the chaotic cities that are out there... insteadwe are all working together to BUILD something, not to fight over it.
If you realy believed half of what you wrote you would have founded your new town somewhere close to civilization so that you could experience all the thrills of conflict yourself. You would be challenging others to try to take it off you. Instead you chose tobuild it about as far away from civilisation as you could...WHY? Don't you want to fight for control against one of the big PA's?
Anyone who wants Politicians to have to 'Fight' for control should be advocating 100% PvP where the winner gets to remove the weapons and equipment of the loser. It's about the same thing.. stripping someone of all their hard work, and also their ability to gain xp. Inside the City 'Politics' is fine.... and the game mechanics already support this fully. What you are advocating is the removal of any protection agains OUTSIDE groups. That has nothing to do with Politics.
bah... and i thought i had sworn off long responses... you did it again... grrrrr
"sure you have a choice if you want to be a part of it... but you don't have a choice if that war wants to make YOU, your friends, or where your city is a part of it"
Yes, we have a choice. It's called being neutral and asking the griefers to go someplace else. Neutral=no PvP. That you dislike it is YOUR problem. Someone you can't PK, waaaaaaaaaaah.
" If you don't want to play with others, or deal with people conflicting with your vision, why are you playing a multi-person game"
Playing with others and dealing with people conflicting with my vision are two different things entirely.
How do I deal with peopke not sharing my vision? By grouping and playing with people who do. That those people not sharing my vision can enforce theirs on mine while I never asked for it, is not good.
you want the means to invade my city, give me the means to kick you out.
Else you can enforce your playstyle on me, plain and simple. Mayors are usually not combat guys. Most social people interested in a city aren't either. If you want to place a building wherever you like without zoning rights, let the Mayor then have eminent domain powers. After all, someone must have last say in city layout.
Quote:
"Mayors should NOT have the power to keep someone from moving into a city, and certainly not the power to keep citicezns from voting."
I think there is some confusion here...
MAYORSDON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT
I appologise forshouting, but at least half of the arguments here seem to be based on the premise that they do have this ability.
Ihave zoneing rights enabled (just like a real life town), and I have NO CONTROL over who is a citizen. Dont believe me? Think about this.... I have control over what structures are built (just like RL)... that's all.
You want an open city with the Mayor unable to control who moves in.... well guess what, you already have it. What you dont have is the ability to just plunk down a structure any place you please. This is exactly how real towns work, and for the very same reasons. You can't have an organised community if anyone can justbuild wherever they like.
If you are dead set on moveing into a town, do what people do in the real world... purchase an available building within the town, dont expect to screw up the town design by building structures everywhere.
As for the issue of Mayor's blocking citizen votes, I agree completely that this is Unacceptable behaviour. The use of Malitia powers is OKi guess for Mayors wanting to try to be dictators, but the blocking of the town hall or voting terminal isclearly an exploit. I seriously doubt if Malitia powers (citywarn etc) will prevent an angry citizenry from ousting the mayor at the next election.
As for the assumtion that towns are all single PA affairs, wellsome are some aren't. Any individual Novice Politician can place a Hall.. it's only the Caps which some of you advocate that have prevented more non-guild towns springing up. The majority of existing ones werefounded by guilds simply because the logistics made it a bit easier for guilds to win the land rush.
In other words, a person can want to live in your city limits, and you can say no by not granting him zoning rights.
Who are you trying to kid here? Mayors should not have that power.
Instead Mayors should have the power to reserve a few select spots so that no one, citicezn or not can place a building on that specific location. But they should not be abble to deny someone that wants to move inot a town the right to place a building inside the current city limits and become a citicezn.
That is not a mayor, that is a king, and I dont want to livein the Kingdom of Posi 
The problem is that most people dont want to be a politician, they dont want to be a mayor, they want to be an absolute dictator. And the game rules favor them over people that want to be what the class really is, a politician.
Dayln wrote:In other words, a person can want to live in your city limits, and you can say no by not granting him zoning rights.
Who are you trying to kid here? Mayors should not have that power.
Instead Mayors should have the power to reserve a few select spots so that no one, citicezn or not can place a building on that specific location. But they should not be abble to deny someone that wants to move inot a town the right to place a building inside the current city limits and become a citicezn.
That is not a mayor, that is a king, and I dont want to live in the Kingdom of Posi
The problem is that most people dont want to be a politician, they dont want to be a mayor, they want to be an absolute dictator. And the game rules favor them over people that want to be what the class really is, a politician.
You are ignoring the fact that some of us are trying to PLAY the ROLE of an Imperial possession.
We are NOT a democratic society. We DO NOT allow just anyone to move in.
Like I said in my previous post, you are working under the assumption that just because the game ALLOWS voting and a democratic process that all cities are REQUIRED to operate under that style of government.
They don't.
This is Star Wars. Some of us are trying to ROLEPLAY. If you want a democratic city, go move into one, there are plenty. Leave the rest of us alone.
(roleplay)
The empire is not a democracy. The Emperor rules all and knows all. It would be befitting if you follow the Emperor's wishes instead of making you own
(end)
that is what the empire is.. granted it was originally founded on the "senates" but I think the Emperor have all the power We (the imperials) are the soldiers of the emperor.. A true imperial city would only have one mayor and never change (we role play that is the assign duties from the top)
(reality)
I love democracy.. it is what make this country (US) great.. I have lived in monarchy (thailand) and communism (china) and they are different there are more opportunities here than other places... but remember.. this is a game (SWG) and should follow the star war universe rules.
I'm sure if Vadar feels that the "enroaching" building are forming outside his city borders.. he will send out his army to crush them (literally) or do it himself (too much work.. but he could hehe)