Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Pistoleers can we get behind these proposals and try and help another class?
There is a great disbalance between rifle/carbine/pistol ranges and accuracies right now.
Range cannot be added to rifle. Apparently 64 meters is teh max range for the game do to some coding issues. The devs have stated that 64 meters is the ceiling.
That said, I believe that a pistol should be about as accurate at 50 meters as a rifle is at 10 meters. Basically you'll miss 4 out of 5 times. The operational range for the pistol is far wider than that of the rifle and, to a lesser extent, the carbine. It is not your profession that needs nerfing, but your weapons.
If the operational range of the game is 64 meters, divide it up between the 3 weapons.
you get about 20 meters worth of operational range. Riflemen already only have about 20 meters of operational range. 60-40 m. Have carbine work in 40-20, and pistol 20-0.
Shoot outside those ranges and you should be missing wildly.
my 2 cents
I agree with the original poster.
All of that stuff would help rifle, and I support it.
My only concern is the extra range while prone, because I'm concerned that someone could go prone and use mindshot2 on me from 84m and then run backwards to prevent me from firing back.
Otherwise I agree with all of the suggestions. I don't understand why most riflemen don't get behind that stuff instead of trying to get our range nerfed.
You can't play with range though. Too much in the game (mob aggro ranges, NPC firing distances, faction installation firing distances, etc...) is based on 64 meters. It's not that it can't be fixed, it's just that it would be a fair amount of work and generate a lot of new bugs.
And upping the damage to compensate for the new speed cap could be an issue. Part of the reason for adjusting the speed cap is because they were doing too much damage. They were never intended to do the amount of damage you get from having a 6 speed weapon fire once a second.
I DEFINITELY agree with reducing or eliminating that damage from melee multiplier. Come on... It makes perfect sense that if you run up to someone with a rifle they're going to have a hard time aiming that thing when you're in their face, but why would they take extra damage when you hit them!? Heck, if anything they're likely to turn the rifle around and swing it like a bat and take your head off
Other ideas that have been popping into my head are since mind damage is currently unhealable perhaps riflemen and medics should have access to a low encumberhance helm or possibly even whole line of low mind enc.armor.Alot of people may not like that idea since everyone suffers from HAM encumberances tho.
Also i was thinking maybe they need a mellee defense type move.They could call it bayonet or something.Probably not make it a posture change, but like have a short stun or intimidate state on it so that they could have a couple seconds to try and put a bit of distance between them and their opponent.
I could see howextending their range could create alot of bugs.But im hoping they go against what they usually do, and this time thoroughly test the crap out of these new combat changes because their are going to be ALOT of drastic changes to combat from the stuff the dev is proposing.The changes they are talking about need to be tested hardcore before they go live.Hopefully they could factor in an extended rifle range as part of it.
Perhaps extending their range will not be an option in the end, i guess thenmaybea higheraccuracy penalty at long ranges for pistol may be in order.
Anways post your ideas and thoughts with pro's and cons.But please try and keep it constructive with miminal flammage, i'm hoping for this thread to hopefully produce some positive results somehow.
I actually let go with several posts over there in their board where we were being rallied against. I included these in one post as a set of 1 negative counter suggestion balanced with 7 other positive ones. These were:
1. If Pistol Users cannot shoot past 32 meters with their weapon, then Rifle Users should not be allowed to hit anything WITHIN 32 meters with their weapon.
2. Snipers should be able to conceal themselves from visual and **radar** acquisition in PvP as well as PvE to more adequately reflect their skill at targeting and hitting a target from cover or distance.
3. That Riflemen and Bounty Hunter Skills Stack towards accuracy and damage done when shooting from concealment.
4. That Riflemen and Melee Class Skills should stack toward a more adequate offense/defense ability in close/melee ranges.
5. That Rifle Weapons apply just as much damage if not MORE, at close range as at long range. While range modifiers remain INTACT.
6. The addition of a weapon or mode wherein you can apply a high rate of fire at full-auto speeds as was intended in reference descriptions of the E-11 and the T-21
7. The addition of melee powerups to rifle weapons like a bayonet. Or vibro bayonet.
8. That Riflemen receive a working version of the Pistol Melee defense skill with a knockdown feature that enables them to get back to a more optimum firing range in the Rifleman Special Abilities line.
It seemed they were having none of it over there. Intent on provoking an argument with Jaegen, their correspondent kept asking to test a weapons comparison and insisting our max range be cut in half. Seemed anyway... Now they're arguing accuracy over there. Hell with it. If they wanna start nerfing our max range, in turn, nerf their min range. Let's see em put their money where their mouth is. If they're willing to take what they're giving, I got no complaints. But I wasted most of an afternoon I could have spent reading on a stupid argument, making observations no-one seemed inclined to listen to concerning the nature of why pistols, rifles, Pistoleers, Riflemen and those thrice-fekt Bounty Hunters are they way they are.
**Begin Rant**
Frell it. Life's too short. If they can screw up the professions any more than they have, they will. SOE will pander to the loudest whiner because in the end, it will suit their bottom line to prolong fixing anything by alternately throwing sops to different groups to keep us fighting instead of turning our ire on them for all the problems they seem almost content to let sit while they take care of important matters like putting ugly spots all over my infiltrator suits cos some parent that can't be bothered to raise their own child found out that little billy was playing among 'adults' that wore skin coloured catsuits and lap-danced 'naked' on the screen that they plopped him down in front of instead of telling him to go read a book or ride a frelling bike. I am a patient person. But this drek is more than I signed on for. The game is becoming not fun. It's becoming all about math and numbers and who ownz joo and playing hot subject potato to avoid the bat of nerfing while no-one seems to frelling CARE that everyone's losing in the argument and the Devils get away with dragging their frelling feet on content that will make all this grinding for experience mean a frelling thing. It'd be nice to have an 18 years and older ONLY server. I imagine then we might not have to deal with all the kids that have more time on their hands than maturity or frelling sense while they whine about whatever latest thing upsets the idea that their bounty hunter class is the uberleet-est, cos hey, they can't be frelling Obi-Wan or Maul or Kataarn, so they're gonna be Jango or Boba and maker save me I'm just so FRELLING SICK OF ALL THE ARGUMENTS HERE CONCERNING WHO SHOULD NERF WHO AND $%(*&)#$(%&)#(@$%)@(#&%)(#&%)@#(&%(#$%#^*(&$%%#$&%(*$%&(*%&#@)&%!@#%&#^%&^#%*&@#$@#$_)(#%(@#)%(&@#%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fekt... That hasn't happened in a while. I will not apologize for my loss of temper. It was frelling warranted. Nerf each other to the frelling stone age. No one listens. No one cares that in the end we're gonna be using Flintstones Slingshot guns to fling pebbles at the rancor while we're still wearing out shoes cos in the galaxy far far away, they currently don't have anything that bespeaks TRANSPORTATION unless you count a transport or the Star Tours bus. YEaaah. a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, we didn't have yer newfangled AUTO-mo-beels or yer reeepulsorlift speeders! If we wanted to go out to a rogue cor-sec base on the east coast of Corellia, we RAN the entire way! We LONGED for the day that we could do rock flinging drive bys on the back of a dewback. And we LIKED it too!
Oog. Happened again. Improve yourselves. Nerf each other into caveman skins and pointy sticks. (Hey folks like that survive on Dantooine every day. The models exist. It could happen.) I'm too frelling disgusted to want to pretend to care anymore.
"insert your own witty frelling quote here."
Well let me say one thing in response to the last post, because I think the last part of it had a nugget of wisdom embedded inside. You're right that SOE listens to the largest groups of customers who whine the most ... that's one reason BH is so powerful. That's also whythe Rifleman Correspondent is in way over his head if he really wants to push for pistols to be useless beyond 32m.
Think about how that insight applies to the Rifleman Correspondent's request. He wants to nerf not only Pistoleers, but also Bounty Hunters, Carbineers, Smugglers, and even Commandos. Do you think Bounty Hunters are going to like not being able to use their Scatter Pistols beyond 32m? Asking for this nerf, instead of fixing the stuff that's wrong with rifle, is the dumbest tactical move he could make. Right now he's just arguing with us because of my cross-post in this forum, andwe're a small group of fairly rational folks. But if he keeps pressing ahead, he'll have to deal with hundreds of whiners on SWG Discussion. If he's dumb enough to try, it will be alot of fun to watch.
I don't care about nerfing other profession. I only care about balance. The number one issue I see is the infinite speed problem. Dev proposalis to cap the speed based on weapon. That sorta work, though it leave a big gaping loophole which they'll need to address in the future when they start mucking with damage/speed/HAM cost. But it does address the infinite speed issue.
Other than that, it's fix what's broken. Everything you posted are bugs and should be addressed.
Calling for nerf to other professions, well, I'll be a troll and call that childest. Flame away 
Weapon speed cap should be 50% of the weapons base speed....
This allows the speed skill to negate special move speed costs, while still maintaining balance between weapons...
IE
1.) Spray stick 2.1 speed...Cap would be 1
2.) t21 at 8.8 speed, cap would be 4.4
This would also make speed slices extreamly usefull....
"Discussion is for the wise or the crippled and I am neither!"
-Leela, "Dr. Who: The Sun Makers"
Capping it at 50% of base weapon speed will make you so gimped, a noob can take you out. It also means all the skill modifiers will become worthless since you'll hit the cap real quick.
Capping it at 25%, 20% or even 10% would be better ( a 8.8s capped at 1.8s or 0.8s) is not too unbalancing while still give you a reason to climb the skill tree. It's when the speed get down to 5% or 0% is when problem come up.
Instead of letting this riflemen vs pistoleers range issue deterioate any further why dont we try and help them.Heres a list of stuff for them that im sure most of us could back.
1) fix any broken or useless specials ( this is kind of a universal thing for all classes )
2)Up damage appropriately to compensate for the new speed cap
3)Reduce their insane mind costs
4) fix the mob warping problem asap
5) extra accuracy modifyers at long range
6)reduction in damage they take from mellee
7) now for the issue everyones worked up about extra range for rifle.Extra range while moving would be unbalancing and silly (rifles are not accurate at allwhen your running in RL) but would it be unreasonable to give riflemen an extra 16 to 20m range when prone or in take cover mode?Eg. when prone or in take cover mode they get a 80-84m range
Anyways if your a pistoleer and ya believe that you could support these changes, or even just some of them please post here.Or if you cant please post and say why not.It's time we all try and work together to improve our classes.