Pistoleer Archive
Thread: The Riflemen Still Want to Kite Us
For some reason, the last thread about this issue got locked -- apparently people got mean-spirited somewhere in the thread.
Sadly, most riflemen still want to nerf us so we can't fire from further than 30m, which will enable them to kite us from 30m to 64m just like they do with melee. Here's a new thread where they defend the idea:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=rifleman&message.id=16519
Like I said before, please be polite and not mean to them if you respond. Riflemen DO have big problems as a class, so don't go on there and say they don't. They have problems with warping mobs, they get a 2.5 melee penalty, they have high mind HAM costs, and their T21 got nerfed recently.
None of us want THEM to be nerfed, but we need to question why they're asking for us to be nerfed instead of asking for their own profession to be fixed.
SO today id thought id have a test at 64 meters rifleman in guild vs me.. Ya ill do it again and post combat logs on rifleman forum
DiLune wrote:
Fools, pure and simple. The devs are looking at boosting the Riflemans Cover bonuses (stated in their post last week) and yet again we have a rifleman who wants to STAND and plink away. Hey, good idea..darwin is coming for you.
Im sorry I did not explain my self well. When I imply "stand" I mean not just standing. I mean kneeling, prone, cover. I for one do not like the idea of Kiting players. But the devs had stated it, both weapons have the same accuracy at max range. That is what I want changed more than anything.
I personally think that rifles should have a max range of 100 meters. I can be hit by a Tusken sniper at 97 meters, so it is possible. The max range of a rifle should be higher thatn a pistol, at the very least.
No no no.
Two people 64m away.
Why on earth do you think the pistoleer wins? Please elaborate.
Rifle goes cover/prone, pistol goes prone. Rifle has better accuracy at 64m as long as they choose the right rifle, and pistols will get a huge negative from the additional cover bonus. Rifles have ranged superiority.
Second, rifle specials when they hit, are overall more effective than anything a pistoleer has.
Rifleman/doc vs rifleman pistoleer.
Riflemind bleed, dizzy/posture change, then does head shots., pistol hits health or random pool. Who wins, you tell me.
GD it all, think people. Pistols are EASY TO USE, and SUCK. RIfles are harder to use, and are effective. Get it? By suc I really mean relatively less effective than rifle attacks. Isn't that supposed to be that way? I don't know, maybe pistols should give up having good all around accuracy too so we can suck even more?
Jaegen88 wrote:No no no.
Two people 64m away.
Why on earth do you think the pistoleer wins? Please elaborate.Rifle goes cover/prone, pistol goes prone. Rifle has better accuracy at 64m as long as they choose the right rifle, and pistols will get a huge negative from the additional cover bonus. Rifles have ranged superiority.
Second, rifle specials when they hit, are overall more effective than anything a pistoleer has.
Rifleman/doc vs rifleman pistoleer.
Rifle mind bleed, dizzy/posture change, then does head shots., pistol hits health or random pool. Who wins, you tell me.
GD it all, think people. Pistols are EASY TO USE, and SUCK. RIfles are harder to use, and are effective. Get it? By suc I really mean relatively less effective than rifle attacks. Isn't that supposed to be that way? I don't know, maybe pistols should give up having good all around accuracy too so we can suck even more?
If you notice my second post I said Max Range. This is not 64meters. It is 65m. 1 meter and the rifle has the same accuracy as the pistol. I think that the issue between Rifleman and Pistoleers has been overblown, but something has to be done about it now. Now if I sound like I have changed my mind since that first post I have. I have started to look at more facts. But I still think there is a problem and it seems to me neither side wants to compromise.
Compromise what? If the riflemen think they need to hit more at longer range then yes, I agree, lets do it. What we have heard here is "Lets reduce the effective range of pistoleers" which is not something anyone could reasonably expect us to compromise on. Hit less at long range? We already have problems hitting there...but if we are getting a +40 to hit with our specials...dunno.
I have wondered if there is a Penalty cap. Like -100 max penalty. So when we get the +40 to hit its added after the penalty. This may explain why we hit so well while moving at max range. This is only speculation at this point...
DiLune wrote:Compromise what? If the riflemen think they need to hit more at longer range then yes, I agree, lets do it. What we have heard here is "Lets reduce the effective range of pistoleers" which is not something anyone could reasonably expect us to compromise on. Hit less at long range? We already have problems hitting there...but if we are getting a +40 to hit with our specials...dunno.
I have wondered if there is a Penalty cap. Like -100 max penalty. So when we get the +40 to hit its added after the penalty. This may explain why we hit so well while moving at max range. This is only speculation at this point...
What I am refering too is that the devs seem to not want to raise the range of the rifles. That is why people want to cut the range of the pistols. So as of right now, that are the terms we have to come up with ideas in. That is why I implyed compromise.
"Sadly, most riflemen still want to nerf us so we can't fire from further than 30m, which will enable them to kite us from 30m to 64m just like they do with melee. Here's a new thread where they defend the idea:"
As a pistoleer myself, and a person who enjoys a solid combat system i can see where these riflemen are comming from, becasuse i do believe they have a very valid point, a riflemen SHOULD be able to shoot targets from further distances accuratelythen a person armed with a pistol, the only problem i have with their proposed range is that if 30m is our longest reach, it would hurt us in more ways then one, because it would be a nerf to us not only against rifelmen, but also against melee, since melee range for lunge is an outrageous 15m, and from what i read recently the dev in charge of combat talked about extending melee range so that melee professions could hit while moving.
This issue on range has to viewed by the devs as a whole in my opinion because changes to either end of the spectrum of it effects pistol users the most, we are quite literaly stuck in the middle, heh heh so if the devs extend melee range, they must extend pistol ranges, and also extend rifle range, it's the only way it can work.
As Philosopher said, a hard range cap is kite food, and should never happen. Iwould however concede that our accuracy modifiers outside of 32m should be such that it isVERY desirable for us Pistoleers to close the distance as quickly as possible. Im thinking perhaps a Master Pistoleer hitting 3/10 times, with specials, outside of 48, if not 32m. Perhaps 4/10 times in the 32-48m segement but that would be up for debate.
This would especially be the case vs Riflemen with the cover bonus, when it is fixed.
ur86dmentioned melee'rs tagging from 15m...this is news to me...if its correct, I'd like to see our dodge bonuses work vs melee attacks if they don't already. We will need that kind of thing if we are to have any chance of surviving within 32m vs melee classes.