Pistoleer Archive

Q. How does Pistol Speed work? Is there a cap to pistol speed?
A. (WeaponSpeed * SpecialDelayMod) - (WeaponSpeed * SpecialDelayMod) * (PistolSpeed/100)
And if result < 1.0s , result = 1.0s

reduces to

(weaponspeed * specdelaymod) * (1-(pistolspeed/100))

Why is it not:

(weaponspeed*specialdelaymod)-(pistolspeed/100)

I dont think the pistolspeed/100 is correct fyi, my experimentation says it should be pistolspeed/50 or so... still taking data.

My question stands, who created this formula, as it does not seem to be correct from what I can see, but if it comes from a dev then I guess I am wrong

the reason I ask is based on the first formula, if you had 100 pistol speed no matter what pistol you used or what special the equation is equal to zero. How can that be right.

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Yazule wrote:

the reason I ask is based on the first formula, if you had 100 pistol speed no matter what pistol you used or what special the equation is equal to zero. How can that be right.

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Ah ah, good question : how can that be right ?

The point is : if you reach 100 speed, no matter what weapon you use or what move you use, you will fire once per second. You can be absolutely sure of this.

The formula looks valid and we all agree it shouldn't work that way or Speed Mod should be capped (not weapon dly).

ok, so who here has 100 pistol speed on bloodfin, I want to see this in action for verification.

It's correct.

WeaponSpeed * SpecialDelayMod * (1 - PistolSpeed/100)

=1 if answer <1

That works too.

It came from me doing testing using various speed weapons and various pistol speeds and was posted back in August. If you read the other speed threads on this forum, you'll find your recation is duplicated probably 20-30 times by other posters. "THIS CANT BE RIGHT!"

So don't feel alone inhaving though that, most of us did, but it is indeed correct. The way everyone hits cap once they get to a high speed and DPS shoots through the roof, is why we suggested that the devs alter the calculation or the speed mods so that they don't get this crazy cap situation where speed is essentially removed from the DPS equation. We think they either didn't understand it, or couldn't change it, since what they proposed was different "caps" for pistols/rifles (Devs responded that they though indeed, pistols should fire faster than rifles). Which essentially, doesn't fix the problem we had with it in the first place.

ok thanks for the input, I do math for a living (engineer) and I think they could use some math people looking at their formula's because that is a downright silly way to do it roflol.

Anyway FYI, I am running my own tests and data sets, trying to verify what is already here indipendantly. Will be posting if I dont agree with something .

again I ask, who has 100 pistol speed on bloodfin? I need the data from you, should not take long (i have a 4.6 speed dx2 specifically for testing, show me your 1.0 speed hehe).

Yazule, if you want I can post links to some SS of me using a 3.3 SR Combat with only Stopping Shot (huge dly) and firing once per second. That's easy to do.

But since I do understand why you fail to see how this can work that way, for my part I fail to see why you don't trust us : we are not stating this to be kidding, it is our main issue atm. The reason is that Riflemen (FOR EXAMPLE) hit 90 speed and are then able to use T21 and sepcials once per second, which makes them THINK their specials have a too high HAM cost.

The formula shown its failure many times with many different weapons, this also throw melees far behind range attacker, just because they can't hit the cap.

I am doing an intensive study to write a program to do some calculations for my weaponsmith. There is nothing wrong with verifying things is there? It is not that I trust or distrust what you are saying, I am just working things out for myself.

Based on what you are saying I believe it is probably true, but proof is in the puddin. I cant give something to someone and say I am sure it is correct without some validation.

The intent is to put up a website where you will put a few inputs in and it will calculate damage per time based on speed, weapon damage, user speed, armor etc... if it is not right it will flop, so I am doing all I can to be sure that it is correct.

Speaking of things not correct, has anybody else noticed that armor piercing does not work the same way as the dev's say? Firstly there is no damage increase for AP vs no armor (should be 25%). Secondly AP 1 fully pierces light and medium armor (I suspect heavy armor too but have not tested this since I noticed it).

Because the dev's information on armor and AP guns is incorrect it forces me to verify anything anybody says. No offense meant there bro.

You're doing a great deal of reinvention of the wheel.

Take your weapon, use the weapon and count how long it takes to fire 20 shots at a faction lair (won't spawn any bad guys). Then divide that out to see how fast you're firing. Compare that with your + pistol speed and you'll see that the calculation is correct.

And do a search for one of the many DX2 threads(I think IdunoUduno posted one recently)or our issues log on the armor piercing issue.

Yazule,

Easy way to verify is to turn on logging (/log is toggle, so much sure you see the message logging on, X size). The log is located in StarWarGalaxies\Profile\<Galaxies>\<LoginName>\<CharacterName>_chatlog.txt. The log get flushed every 50 lines, so you will not see the last 50 lines.

If you have perl installed, grep for "you shoot", grab the 2nd column and split the time. Assuming you spam the same attack type, then diff last shot time with first shot time and divide by number of shot - 1 to get the net speed. From there, it's easy to correlate your pistol speed skill with the weapon speed.

For special attack, they all have their own name, for example "Gut Shot", "Chest Shot", etc. To test these timing, just spam them and then perform the same analysis.

As for whether the special mod is additive or multiplicative, I can't test yet since I need to have 2 different pistol speed skill. Still deciding on creating an alt char--such a waste just to test this though.

If you want the exact perl program, holler and I'll post it.

Forgot to add, turn on timestamping (open option, select misc tab, and check timestamp incoming messages). I think it's misc tab, if not try chat.

I can verify what everyone has said about the formula as well. The formula is correct, and the formula is stupid.

I give away or sell all my speed sliced weapons (useless to me) and can spam StoppingShot at the rate of once per second. Most Master Riflemen spam specials at the rate of close to once per second, and it is possible to create templates that allow you to spam LastDitch once per second.

Dumb as heck, but also 100% true.

Skepticism is a good attitude to have. However, the onus on proving whether or not a formula is correct to you is not on anyone other than yourself.

Whether or not a dev says a certain thing is the way it works or not does not make it true. The only 'true' thing is how it functions in game. A dev can provide information on how things -should- or -will- be, but this is not the same as how things -are-.

Several people have explained how you can confirm the formula for yourself (Zerona provided the most explicit test, IIRC). This is probably a good place to start, and if your results are inconsistent with the expected values, you can provide us the data and your analysis and get feedback as to where the mistake (if there is one) might be. There's always a possibility that the formula is incorrect or there is a corner case which it does not consider, but as far as I am aware, it is comprehensive.

As a note, your simplification of the formula is incorrect. You did not distribute the factor properly between the two inner terms.