Pistoleer Archive

This isn't a rant, just a little something I did for my own benefit that I thought I should share.

Acording to the speed formulae:

Delay = Weapon_Speed * Special_Modifier * (1 - Pistol_Speed_Ability/100)
If Delay < 1.0 then Delay = 1.0

What I did was to compare what the increase in damage (because of firing faster) was from Novice Marksman up to Pistol Specialist and on through to Novice Pistoleer and up to Master Pistoleer.

Note I am assuming the whole way through that the speed cap of 1.0 seconds isn't being hit, mainly for ease of use. This means that the below calculations are accurate if Weapon_Speed * Special_Modifier < 3.85.

When you attain:
Intermediate Pistol(10 Pistol Speed), damage increases by5.56%
Advanced Pistol(15 Pistol Speed), damage increases by 5.88%
Expert Pistol(20 Pistol Speed), damage increases by6.25%
Pistol Specialist(25 Pistol Speed), damage increases by6.67%
Novice Pistoleer(30 Pistol Speed),damage increases by7.14%
Pistol Stances I(36 Pistol Speed), damage increases by9.37%
Pistol Stances II(42 Pistol Speed), damage increases by10.34%
Pistol Stances III(48 Pistol Speed), damage increases by 11.54%
Pistol Stances IV(54 Pistol Speed), damage increases by13.04%
Master Pistoleer(74 Pistol Speed), damage increases by76.92%

Note that each of these increases apply on top of each other.

If you want to really amuse yourself - try it with the cap in place and some common weapon speeds.

The normal speed of a "good" pistol will be around 2.0, 4.0 or 4.5 for a carbine, and 6.0 or 7.0 for a rifle.

You also might want to go look at the multipliers for various specials and compare them - many of thecommonly used pistoleer specials have much higher multiples than the common rifle/carbine moves.

BlackPearl - what is the basis for the damage increase value you're providing?

Damage (DPS) = damage / delay

We disregard front loading because the first shot is delay free (or more accurately, the fact that the delay is the delay till the NEXT shot goes off).

Damage is staying constant, and delay is going down. Reduce delay by 10%, and DPS goes up by 10%.

How do you calculate 5.56%, for example, for a 10% increase in speed?

DPS = Damage / Delay

and

Delay = Weapon_Speed * Special_Modifier * (1 - Pistol_Speed_Ability/100)

therefore

DPS = Damage / [Weapon_Speed * Special_Modifier * (1 - Pistol_Speed_Ability/100)]

DPS_Increase = New_DPS / Old_DPS

so

DPS_Increase = {Damage / [Weapon_Speed * Special_Modifier * (1 - New_Pistol_Speed_Ability/100)]} / {Damage / [Weapon_Speed * Special_Modifier * (1 - Old_Pistol_Speed_Ability/100)]}

Taking out common factors

DPS_Increase = (1 - Old_Pistol_Speed_Ability/100) / (1 - New_Pistol_Speed_Ability/100)

An example of this would be going from Novice Marksman(5 = Old_Pistol_Speed) to Intermediate Pistol(10 = New_Pistol_Speed)

DPS_Increase = (1 - 5/100) / (1 - 10/100)
DPS_Increase = 0.95 / 0.90
DPS_Increase = 1.0556
DPS_Increase = 5.56%

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YetiIronfist wrote:

Damage is staying constant, and delay is going down. Reduce delay by 10%, and DPS goes up by 10%.

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Correct.

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How do you calculate 5.56%, for example, for a 10% increase in speed?

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Okay, the particular value of 5.56% is coming from going from Novice Marksman to Int Pistol which is going from a Pistol Speed Skill of +5 to +10.

The way delay is modified by your pistol speed skill is defined by the formulae given above:

Delay = Weapon_Speed * Special_Modifier * (1 - Pistol_Speed_Ability/100)

From this formula you can see that the relationship between Delay and Pistol Speed skill is not a linear one, very heavily illustrated by the fact that as Pistol Speed Skill reaches 100 then Delay would equal 0 and as Pistol Speed Skill goes over 100 the Delay becomes negative. Without the coded cap of delay not being < 1.0 second this system would be even more flawed than it is now.

I can continue the explanation if you like but there should be enough info here to work it out for yourself, I'm a little tired right now. If you don't quite get it yet though let me know and I will do my best.

This is pretty well-known, and is the basis for the post regarding the oddities due to the speed formula. 5 points of speed when you have +90 speed already is quite different from 5 points of speed when you have +0 speed.

Ahhh, yes, yes, yes.

Thank you BlackPearl.

I didn't think that through long enough before posting

Nice work, and good information!

Thanks for the post -- good info to share. I think it helps illustrate a point that I trade to make earlier ... that weapon speed skyrockets as you approach +100 speed, and that the overall effect is to negate the speed advantages of our weapons.

Right now I get upset when I get a speed slice on my pistols ... that shouldn't be the case. Having a Scout with 1.1 should still be helpful, albeit marginally, even if I'm a Master Pistoleer.