Pistoleer Archive

Pistoleer Issues Report#1

7/25/03

Being so early in the game, most of us are still learning how the game works. What end game with top-end crafted armor/weapons/buffs, etc. will result in, only time will tell. The below are issues and questions pulled from the pistoleer pages.A number of questions are related to things we have not had good testing on, so my not be an issue, just a misunderstanding of how the special works.

Technical questions/issues:

1. Disarming Shot 1: Seems to just do random HAM damage (redundant). The name is misleading if it's intended to just be a random HAM pool special like the other styles in the stances/grips line. It makes sense to be there, but maybe it's a bit confusing. Folks aren't seeing a big difference between point blank 2 single (tactics 1)and this special, which also raises the question.

2. Multi Target Pistol Shot: Several master pistoleers report that this special seems ineffective/broken.

3. Is there a CAP on pistol accuracy and speed? With the bounty hunter + pistoleer line, some report speed capping at +100. Bug or hard cap?

4. Defenses, like dodge, seem to be fairly ineffective (rarely see a dodge). Same goes for any profession defense we assume. Could this be one of the reasons why professions all seem to be a little too effective overall in ability to kill mobs, and each other, quickly? Any description of what defenses are based on (what is +10?) and what melee and ranged defense is (is it a modifier "to hit") might help. However, in general, defense doesn't seem to kick in very often.

5. Pistols seem to be very similar in overall stats - Even the DX2, the pistoleer special (achieved in the novice pistoleer box) pistol, seems to be out-done by scouts blasters. I suspect that's ONLY because scouts are currently more popular and experimented on, and DX2s are more rare due to that, resources, and being a master level weapon. It is acid damage, which is nice early on. Most "feel" that end game, composite armor will be widely available/affordable, and then acid protection will no longer be an issue, and thus, DX2 will again be a mediocre weapon. As I state above, we don't know since it's not end-game, and heavily experimented, it "seems" to have a slightly higher DPS, but it's something brought up a number of times on this board.

General game play suggestions/concerns:

1. Holsters – Store pistols in a holster when not in combat mode

2. Bounty Hunter vs Pistoleer - A lot of confusion and jealousy stems from the bounty hunter profession “competing” with the title of “best pistol user”. Many address this by buying bounty hunter pistol line + pistoleer skills. A few things we note: BH is very expensive to purchase, so it has to make up for this. You can purchase both master pistoleer + BH pistol line (if you really think it's better, get both!), bounty hunters do give up defense skill mods (but interestingly enough, see above...defenses don't seem to be doing much from casual observation). All in all, most that factor in everything don't have a real issue, other than competing for the title of best pistol user. However, it's still very popular on the board(s), so here's notification of that.

3. Gun twirling emote(s) - or make it a special attack at mastery level (would be another carrot to achieve mastery in a profession.). Could be tied to an intimidate effect, for instance, if changes to specials are desired. Another suggestion might be to have this go off randomly when holstering your weapon.

4. Certifications - common to all combat classes– all but the DX2 certification is achieved in the marksman line, which takes relatively very little time to climb, often just a few days. As a result, no real excitement occurs when getting a new certification. Consider having some pistol certifications achieved along the pistoleer ranks where progress is more costly and far slower.

5. Dual Wielding pistols – very popular request. Most folks seem to desire this more for, as #3 above, the “look” rather than to increase profession “power”, which no one really has a grasp on yet. It could cut damage of each in half, and confer the benefit of having 2 damage types only, for instance. This could also be a way to make multi-target pistol shot at least “look” interesting, as another example.

With graphical effect only dual wielding, hostlers, and gun twirling, I dare say some folks would not be able to wipe the smile off their face as they play the game as a pistoleer...

How come you dont mention anything about melee defense 2 being the upgrade to melee defense 1 and not knocking down like 1 does, Jaegen?

You nerfed the BH issue severely. Obviously your a BH.

Being a BH should not be a requirement for being a good pistoleer.

Being a BH costs doesnt suck up points. It just says you have to spend some in certain areas that give you NORMAL bonuses and abilities! It also gives you special missions that no one else can do. These are the bonuses to being a BH not being uber with any given weapon!

If you will not address the issue properly then the rest of us REAL pistoleers (not half bounty hunters just to get this oversight bonus) will have to address it. I feel a petition coming on.

A smuggler spends more on two lines that require pistol exp and get NO BONUSES. They get special abilities instead! The way it should be. Pistoleer is for getting better at pistol. Other professions should give you variety of moves only.

WE ARE PISTOLEERS! We have 4 entire trees that give us less then one BH line.. and accuracy is junk cause we all know we miss 1 in every 30 shots by novice pistoleer.

State the facts! Not your biased opinion!

How about you remove your own bias. Read the Pistoleer vs BH thread, obviously there is no consensus. What do you want him to put? "Well, some people think that pistoleers need more skills to be better than BH, but some other people don't, and other people think that BH is too weak compared to pistoleers."

for a pistoleer corospondent you are pretty ignorant on how pistols work when you say scout blasters are better.

Scout blasters are the most resisted pistol there is and its ap of 0 meaning if it fights anything with armor rating of 1 with 1% resist to energy it automatically does half damage. any resists higher takes even more off. So yea a 50-100 1.5 speed scout that does half damage to 80% of anything you fight over a gubber is just so great.

You have to consider ap1 and up. Scatter pistol. i use a 82-112 1.8 speed scatter that does consistent full damage to things with armor rating of 1. which makes it WAY better than a scout blaster. same with the DX2, you all say how bad it is. Its acid damage. Look at the life the target loses instead of looking at your chat box. It says you do 140 damage BUT if you look at the creature you see -180 float up above him. that means you took 180 of his life away. Do the same thing with a scout blaster and odds are itll say you hit for 120 and you -54 float up.

You all really need to experiment with weapons. I can go into hardcore detail about every pistol ive studied but Im not gonna give you everything of how it works. Just watch the damage the target loses instead of your combat chat box. Then you will realise how stupid you were to say how a scout blaster is better than fwg5 or scatter or dx2 or anything with a higher cert.

Scout blasters are rarely good when you get the skill to fight difficult things. If you fight difficult things with a scout blaster (exception of witches on dathomir) then you will take 2 years to kill it. Experiment

Devs DONT need to change anything with weapons you just need to pull your head out of your ass and use some logic to figure out why a scout blaster is an advanced level weapon compared to dx2 which is a pistoleer level weapon.

I currently use 5 different pistols. All of them hotkeyed because there is always a best pistol in ever situation. Once you figure it out you will then understand why creature knowledge is good to have so when you /examine you can figure out a targets armor and weaknesses so you know what to use against it.

**edit** yall need to be more inquisitive instead of just saying oh my scout is so great all the other pistols suck. I mean yea sony has done some stupid stuff on this game but cmon they arent THAT stupid.... ok maybe you can argue with that anyway....

For all you pistoleers for god's sake just experiment with a variety of weapons. You will kill stuff soooo much easier once you learn how it really works.

Mark Sman - Bria Server

"All in all, most that factor in everything don't have a real issue, other than competing for the title of best pistol user. However, it's still very popular on the board(s), so here's notification of that."

He actually said that! BHs being able to do more damage over time with a pistol then a pistoleer isnt a real issue.. weird I thought it was! We get +accuracy and BHs get +speed.. hmm +speed makes EVERY shot faster +accuracy means **edit** because we only miss 1 in every 30 shots after novice pistoleer.

BHs need to be brought in line with smugglers pistol line and have the bonuses removed but leave the special abilities.. **edit** BHs get the best special abilities too! Mind shot.. cmon you can kill the mind stat which cant be healed in PvP! not to even mention the other amazing moves you get.

Cubble, Mark,

==quote-===

Devs DONT need to change anything with weapons you just need to pull your head out of your ass and use some logic to figure out why a scout blaster is an advanced level weapon compared to dx2 which is a pistoleer level weapon.

====

#1 First, language and general bad attitide isn't tolerated here. Clean it up next time and use your mind, not your tongue.

#2 Please read the orignial issues thread. Me, Mame, a number of others, clearly stated why DX2 (I even said it in the above post...not sure why you missed it) is good, since it does acid damage...but there were replies on the other post that made the point that end game, acid will be resisted by anyone with enough credits to purchase good armor.See the difference? I was asked to NOT lead the team, but to report what the community thought was an issue. I've seen over 5+ threads complaining about DX2 and other pistols, some in relation to certificates coming too fast, and some with regards to overall stats, and I don't have a good reason other than PvE to say "no it's not an issue". And even if I did, there will be cases...listen carefully, where I post things I don't agree with...I have to. Get it? Good.

I have both master pistoleer and BH pistol. I can say with all certainty that a master pistoleer will whip a bh pistoleers ass any day of the week. Any day. Eye shot and torso shot are real nice, but you know what, they do you no good when you can't get off the freakin floor. Oh look, there is a bounty hunter, time to spam disarm shot 2. Both lines compliment each other well, but if I had to pick just one, I'd pick pistoleer. After taking both master pistoleer and bh pistol, I'm lefting with a whopping 13 creds left. The scout line is pretty useless. BH pistol should be left as is IMO.

I have to agree with several other posts in this thread that the BH vs Pistoleer issue wasn't given nearly enough emphasis in the top post. No other issue has spawned as many gigantic threads. It's obviously a very hot issue. At the very least I would like it emphasized by the Pistoleer Correspondent until such a time as a dev answers these simple questions:

1) Why does a master BH get more Pistol Accuracy and more Pistol Speed than a Master Pistoleer?

2) Why were BH's given the better special moves in all cases of similar moves? People with both Master Pistoleer and BH pistol spec report that they prefer Torso Shot to Body Shot 3. Eye Shot is something Pistoleers can't even do. And Bleeding Shot vs Health Shot 2 isn't discussed much but I gather from the few posts that they are at least comparable. Thus any BH move trumps its corresponding Pistoleer move.

I admit that Pistoleers get a few wicked moves that BH's don't get. But on the whole, a lot of people feel that BH's make better pistol users than Pistoleers for far less time spent using a pistol.

i think the pistoleer should out power a bounty hunter why HELLO pistoleer spened his whole life training in pistol and the bounty hunter dose half that

Aaronza, Rhyus, Smuggler, Enhan,

Unless I did the math wrong, which is entirely possible, I suspect your basis is not correct to build a campaign against. Pistoleers are not only superior in the accuracy department, same as the BHin the speed department, but they also have well rounded defense (see skill mods below), 12 specials as opposed to 4-6, 2 of which trump anything a BH has if used properly (ranged knockdown and melee knockdown..I dont know stats on fast blast nor on spray shot, or fan shot for that matter..but you didnt mention these so obviously they are irrelevant for you), all for spending:

Pistoleer + master marksman (which is proably not a good use of poitns): 110/250
Pistoleer + just ranged support/pistol: 144/250
Minium Pistoleer + pistol marksman: 158/250

Master Bounty Hunter: 33/250
Pistol 4 on BH tree (misses out master BH box + 3 other lines): 76/250

So from that, clearly.

Accuracy: Pistoleer

Speed: tie

Specials: Clearly pistoleers have far more abilities, and a ranged knockdown (AOE no less), which trumps any non-knockdown specials regardless...and to boot, of course bounty hunters have no knockdown defense.

Defense: Pistoleer..by more than a lot

Skill cost: Pistoleer...far far cheaper. In fact, a master pistoleer can get master in one-two other elite professions (!!)

=====================================
Pistoleer (excludes master marksman):
=====================================
Pistol Accuracy 45
Pistol Accuracy while moving 30
Pistol Accuracy while standing 15
Pistol Aiming 16
Pistol Speed 49

(You did total some of these I trust???)

Total Pistol Accuracy standing: 60
Total Pistol Accuracy moving: 75
Total Accuracy Aiming from standing: 76
Pistol Speed: 49

Defense:
--------
Defense vs Blind 20
Defense vs Dizzy 20
Defense vs Intimidate 0
Defense vs Knockdown 30
Defense vs Posture Change 20
Defense vs Stun20
Dodge 30
Melee Defense 13
Ranged Defense 5

Specials:
---------
Pistol Melee Defnese 1 (knockdown + dmg)
Pistol Melee Defense 2
Disarming Shot 1
Double Tap
Stopping Shot
Fan Shot
Point Blank Single 2
Point Blank Area 2
Body Shot 3
Health Shot 2
Multi Target Pistol Shot
Disarming Shot 2 (AOE knockdown)

===================================
Bounty Hunter (excludes master marksman)
===================================

Pistol Accuracy 60
Pistol Speed 50

Defense:
--------
Ranged Defense 7

Specials:
---------
Bleeding Shot
Eye Shot
Torso Shot
Fast Blast/spray shot?

========================================

What did I miss here guys and gals? I thought this issue was settled on the other post?

Wrong on accuracy. Wrong on speed ( 1 point?). Didn't mention defense. Didn't mention skill cost. Didn't mention what pistoleers can purchase with those extra points to offset any perceived weakness, didn't mention knockdown trumps torso shot and eye shot or any kind of shot.... Take a breather and do some research, and enjoy the profession, it seems pretty solid so far. It's not drastically broken or buggy, and master pistoleers have so far reported they do fine in PvP, even vs bounty hunters. Bounty hunters have 33 points to spend afterwards...you have 158.

Um....you cannot exclude master marksman to BH because it's a pre-requisite, therefore the bh skill tree wins.

*edit* In some ways...unless you included master marksman in that but didn't mention it, i wouldn't know.