Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Jaegen: Change of Tone
I've been reading this forum for a long time -- since the first week after release -- and have been posting a lot lately, now that I've finally been able to figure out how to post from my work computer. 
As most of you know, I have constantly praised Jaegen ... as most every sane person on this forum has. In my view, he is the *best* correspondent on the whole forum without a doubt -- and I've read all of the other profession forums to compare. He puts a lot of time into the forum, does a great job researching and testing to get us info, writes great emails to the Devs, and is a smart and mature guy.
But I'm a little concerned, because I think the fact that he is so mature, level-headed, and even-tempered has actually hurt us, ironically. I guess I'm writing this post in the hope that Jaegen reads it and considers changing his tone to the Devs in the future.
From what I've seen in SWG and in other games (like DAOC), the Devs listen to the group that whines the loudest. The way to get the most from them is to sound angry, to make everything sound gloom and doom, and to ask for 3 times what you need so you get exactly what you want. Jaegen is so mature and level-headed that he presents a balanced picture of things -- he's doing the Devs job for them. When the Devs read his report and then read a report from the angry Chef guy, they assume that our problems are not really that big of a deal.
As we all know, our first correspondent report to the Devs really hurt us, because asking the Devs for twirly guns and holsters made us look like we had no problems. Jaegen is right that he was accurately reflecting what people posted about, and he was also right that we had NO idea back then what the problems were ... at the time, based on what Marmeluke said, we thought that BodyShot3 was pretty good. In retrospect, we would have been better off focusing on problems that we DID know about and making it sound like our profession sucked.
So let's learn from our mistake, now that we're in trouble again. And we ARE in trouble, no matter what Holo says, because it's not good news that more than 60% of the fools on that thread of his think that pistoleer is OVERpowered. Jaegen'sanswer to Holo(see sticky, above) is very accurate and neutral/level-headed, but anyone reading it would get the impression thatcarbines have some major problems that need to be fixed before ours and that pistols actually are more attractive than the other two weapons because our weapons are so much more readily available.
Personally, based on what I've seen, neither of those are true. I have Bounty Carbine 3 and have no problem chaining specials together ... and I also have no problem findingawesomeLaser Carbines on my server. But that's not the point I'm trying to make.
My point is that Jaegen shouldadopt a different tone when sending our concerns/problems to the Devs. As our correspondent he's not a mini-Dev, he's our advocate.He's our guy, our leader. I guess I want him to cheer for us, fight for us, get angry for us. Instead of trying to give a neutral report with lots of data, he should tell the Devs how worthless our specials are or how we're outgunned at high levels by rifles and carbines.
Personally I like Jaegen's style, and I don't want him to change that when he's posting his cool data and charts for us. But I think that when he talks to the Devs, he needs to focus on OUR problems and adopt the angry tone that the Devs are looking for. He should preach the pistoleer gospel -- we're broken, we are underpowered, fix us now please.
What do you guys think? Jaegen, what do you think? I support you 100% and pretty much agree with everything you've ever posted, but I think we need to adopt a different tone to save our profession from the Devs.
Its your coorespondents fault that your overpowered?
Pistol is still clearly the strongest weapon in the game. Highest DPS and deadly accurate up to much longer ranges than it should be.
A Pistoleer/BH dabbler is the most overpowered thing out there. What is coming isn't close to what needs to be done.
Well Jaegen IS the best correspondent out there. And it's his choice, personally I think this is our chance now that "everyones flocking to novice pistoleer". We need to get the truth out there that we are UNDERpowered, broken, and all that jazz. We need fixes. I hate when people say we are overpowered and perfect first off I bet half the people who posted in that Holo question arent even pistoleers and the rest are novice and dont realize the problems. But the loyal pistoleers that are routine in this forum do.
I think the Devs will listen, regardless of tone now. Just preach to them again they must realize.
I see your Schwartz is as big as mine... "
Lowca_Fatal wrote:
Its your coorespondents fault that your overpowered?
Pistol is still clearly the strongest weapon in the game. Highest DPS and deadly accurate up to much longer ranges than it should be.
A Pistoleer/BH dabbler is the most overpowered thing out there. What is coming isn't close to what needs to be done.
If you arent a pistoleer shut up. We have high DPS... dependent on weapons first, and look, you dont know the issues so either work your way up pistoleer and find out or stop complaining because you dont know.
This Fatal guy is a perfect example ... he claims that pistol has the highest DPS of any weapon, when all of us know it has the lowest of the three.
We seriously need the Devs to add some stuff about how speed works to their manual or in-game help, because it's their fault that so many players think pistols have the best DPS.
Fatal, just FYI ... the "speed" on your gun isn't the only thing that affects speed. So yes, a pistol has the best DPS for a novice marksman who is shooting an unarmed foe. As your speed modifiers increase, however, that changes. So at high levels, carbine and rifle spit far more damage per second.
Example: I have a 50-440 3.2 speed Laser Carbine that is AR2. I also have a 58-145 1.1 speed Scout Blaster. Which one speits out more damage per second? Well since I have +70 carbine speed, it's the carbine by far. Even though my Scout seems "fast", because I have over +100 pistol speed I can fire any pistol as fast as the Scout. Anyone with +100 carbine can fire ANY carbine as fast as I can fire ANY pistol. So someone with +30 more carbine speed than me can shoot that Laser Carbine as fast as I can shoot the Scout. Ditto with a rifleman and a T21.
It was taking WAY too much time responding to this, so I cut it down by 99% and will say:
I suspect you are upset about the DA2 nerf, and about Holo's curious post. Your emotions are immediate, you play daily, problems still abound, and more are found every day. Yet nothing has changed. Why aren't things moving in a positive direction?? And why is there so much misinformation out there being posted by EVERYONE?
This is an issue that affects everyone playing the game. We have submitted two very good issues reports, and have been responded to once, and actually, 0/5 of the issues we reported have been fixed. ONCE. We have been talked to ONCE. ZERO issues were fixed. ZERO. And then we see posts like the T21 post, this newest about pistoleers, etc., and you wonder if my "tone" is impacting the game? Trust me, there are issues far beyond what you perceive my "tone" to be that are the root causes of your distress.
And remember, I'm NOT supposed to lead, or "take charge". It's a public forum for players, I am supposed to be "humble", and gather issues and submit them. That's ALL I'm supposed to do. And just between you and me, I think I do a little more than that, mostly becuase I enjoy it (and have some free time forthe time being). If one of your issues is that you are ticked off with the lack of intelligence that's being applied to the game (and to pistoleers), and the lack of fixes and communication, THAT is an issue. And THAT I can deal with. And THAT I agree with.
The rest, is too neither here nor there to really have to get into.
Jaegen ... thanks for your response, as always. I'm sorry if my post was inappropriate ... it was not meant as an attack on you at all, for as I said you are without a doubt *THE* best correspondent in the forums. We're all in your debt for figuring out which of our specials were broken, how speed works, how knockdown works, etc. Plus your reports are always well-written and pick the right issues.
I sent you a forum PM about a few things... thanks for the courteous response to my post, and I apologize if my post got on your nerves. I didn't mean for it to do that at all, because I respect you a lot.
Its your coorespondents fault that your overpowered?
Pistol is still clearly the strongest weapon in the game. Highest DPS and deadly accurate up to much longer ranges than it should be.
A Pistoleer/BH dabbler is the most overpowered thing out there. What is coming isn't close to what needs to be done.
i agree with the original posters comment. Jaegan by far is the most level headed correspondant and does the best reports that actually reflects the problems that we have as 'pistoleers' not cries to nerf others/make us uber.
the problem being that in doing so and not crying and whining we get overlooked. twirly gun moves for exapmle.now i have no aspiration to cry about the problems that the pistoleers are going through, but who have the devs listened to? they have listened to who could yell/cry/moan the loudest.
what we had was 150,000 subscribers weeks 1-8 that were marksman/novice insert whatever classcrying why cant i beat a pistoleer i use a rifle/carbine they shouldnt be able to beat me...blah blah i have a higher damage gun but the pistoleers gets alot of bonuses early on and the other weps are still relatively slow. later on when the cryers make it to master it will be totally unbalanced as the rifle and the carbine will fire at the same rate as the pistol and the game will be very unbalanced for pistoleers. as a pistoleer i cant really win many pvp battles unless i am lucky enough to get in the first pistol whip, or lucky enough to get a fewbleed shotsin and run away.
do i want Jaegan to change the way he does his reports andstart crying etc......no
do iwant to keep getting nerfed because of other cryers......................................no
we need to find a happy middle ground to get the devs to actually listen to our problems and fix some of them. as of now i dont think they have fixed 1 issue that Jaegan sent in, but the others who have cried have recieved fixes. is it just me or are they not listening to us? if the pistoleers are now the most populatedclass we need to no longer sit as a silent majority and make this freaking class not so worthless to become master.