Pistoleer Archive

1. Changing fan shot:
a. if you really dont want to lose this, then why did we compare this to roll/kip shot?

b. If and only if speed mods are increased, could stopping shot be better overall.

c. Fan shot is currently your highest DPS attack if you have below 90 pistol speed.

2. Multi target pistol shot:
How about this be just the AOE cone attack with good damage? Leave fan shot as it is, make this a cone attack, and since it's the master skill, make sure it does pretty good damage? The only advantage you have with fan shot over roll/kip shot is in PvP really, and that's running and gunning. Which IMO is important.

3. Be warned, intimidate could be overpowering and might need a timer or low chance to land (well, if that's fixed too), or really short duration, or limited range. The key here however is we know it "works", and frankly, we fear if we change to too much we might be stuck with a broken special for months to come. That's also why panic shot was popular. We know these two abilities have code already.

4. If disarming shot 2 is an aoe version, that's fine too, I mean, it gives you options. Fighting a creature handler? Go for the AOE disarming shot, then switch to single target attacks on the owner. That's reasonable. I think all combat professions should have a fairly effective way, by mastery level, to deal with 4-5 pets at a time (faction + CH, for instance).

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So here is preliminary based on that, top issues:

1. Only change fan shot if pistoleers are getting an INCREASE in overall speed mod, that is, higher than +74 at mastery.

2. If not, then leave fan shot, and make MTPS a cone attack with good damage/delay.

If you DO increase speed over +74, then folks would prefer fan shot to be cone, and MTPS to be an "all targets in 32m (cap at 10), attack. ?? Both versions had merit, one was good for precise AOE attacks, and this one for all-out everyone attacking.

3. Disarming 1/2 single and cone version intimidate + ok damage/delay. *watch balance on this*

4. Body shot3 (already said this), increase damage to 3.0 orchange both, 2.75 dmg, 2.2 delay. Final DPS should be 1.25 in our opinion. This isn't more than other targeted pool shots.

5. Defense is being worked on folks, they made it too powerful in beta, I can appreciate making slow changes here....as long as they are making them.

6. PBAOE2 needs to hit area of effect.

7. DX2stats and AR still needs to be examined

Thanks Jaegen!

Have no doubt 'you' are the reason this is happening. Please be proud for giving us all hope and letting thousands of people have more fun because of your efforts.

One note: We need to be careful not to overwhelm the devs as we have their attention now. They have pretty clearly speeled out what the 'would' do. I say lets grab the opportunity and not drown them with too many changes to what they have 'agreed to.' A 70% fix is better then no fix IMHO. That said:

Fanshot: I got the impression they were not going to lower it's damage, just make it a cone attack. I could be wrong but I think they were just clarifying that it would be a lower damage attack the stoping shot which came before it since that is how we worded our complaint. So, if they are going to make the current fan shot just better by letting it hit more targets, lets' not muddy the issue with complicated options. Either way, they said they are willing to let it go cone, so I say lets do it.

Multitarget shot: I don't have it yet, so I dont' feel I'm qualified to speak about it. I am concerned with aggro'ing the fambaa next to the Mauler however if it's not attacking me. That being said, I defer to your expert opinions on this one.

I like the intimidate effect for disarm, but if panic would be eaiser I wouldn't mind that as well. Dare we ask for one at DA1 and the other at DA2?

The problem is they can't make single changes. If all they're going to do is make Fan Shot a multi-target or AE attack, then we're even more hosed because we lose our best high damage general purpose attack. They can't do *JUST* this. They need to do something like this:

- Stopping Shot has it's delay decreased so that the DPS is higher and it becomes our highest single target, random HAM, shot.

- Fan Shot becomes a cone attack or high damage single target random HAM + intimidate - something that makes it BETTER than the previous shot.

- MTPS becomes an AE, preferably with a state modifier (stun / blind / etc...) - something to make it BETTER than our lower level shots.

They need to do something like that so that a few basic requirements are satisfied:

- We have different shots for different situations (not ALL plain vanilla, no state effect, single target, random HAM attacks)
- Specials get BETTER as you move up the tree.
- Our specials are "useful" - meaning that they actually out damage BS1/2 and Roll Shot.

I just want body shot 3 fixed and some new pistols :/ (or DX2 bumped in damage to or above launcher pistol specs)

Well, if the speed increase occurs then yes change fanshot to cone and keep stopping where it is. Stopping will take fanshot's place as the general purpose high damage attack.

If the speed increase occurs then at some point (hopefully 2 to three boxes into the speed line) it will be a better shot than BS2, but only for those more dedicated to the pistoleer lines.

MTPS as a cone is great. There are targetting issues involved. Sometimes you don't want to hit all the enemies in a area. Sometimes you do (piket Longhorns on dant...) The 32m is good...but that could be a lot of enemies you don't want to hit. I say lets do it! It doesn't work and is never used right now, but it could be situationally fantastic. Even better would be health pool targetted. A great PVE shot. Fanshot would be a great PVP random HAM shot. But even in PVP it would be nice to drive down someones health pool. But like all cone attacks this is something you would want to use while grouped. Imagine four master pistoleers spamming MTPS at a group of enemies. Wow! Their health would fly down and they'd all spend all their time just healing themselves. (well, kill the CM first!)

DS1 and 2. Well, DS1 would have a semi low chance of intimidate and hopefully do damage to the enemy. Then DS2 would have a higher intim chance and be AE (also random ham damage.) It needs to do the damage if intim isn't 100%.

Think that covers it from my end. This is all predicated (well, the BS3, fan and stopping side are) on us getting not only a speed redistribution, but an overall speed increase.

Awesome job Jaegen!

Would Fanshot completely replace PBA2 if it's given a cone effect? If Fan Shot does get the cone effect, then what good will PBA2 be (if it is also fixed?) Suppose Fan Shot hit all three pools evenly instead of randomly?In essence "fanning" shots acrossthe target's entire body. Would that make it a unique and useful ability? If it is, then MTPS could be a cone-AoE version of it.

Here's a solution to the speed problem:

Change ALL 'Pistol Aiming' mods into pistol speed mods. Pistol aiming is utterly useless and doesn't benefit anyone in the least, because it's only applied when you use the "Aim" special attack, which NOBODY uses. If you change the aiming mods to speed, we end up with +90 speed at master level, which is exactly what we're looking for. This would also spread out speed mods between skill lines and effectively limit the benefit of dabbling in one line just for speed.

I would consider any of the aforementioned changes to fanshot a nerf if they dont increase our speed to +90

I like the idea of intimidate but I think an AE version of it would be overpowering. Single target intimidate would be fine. Perhaps disarm 1 could intimidate, and disarm 2 could intimidate+panicwith higher damage.

ARRGGHHH!!!! - after writing a long detailed response , i click submit, then I'mredirected to the login screen (wheres my friggin cookie?) /deep breath

Preface- I am a master pistoleer, I have mastery of support and distance as a combat medic, and exploration 4, which I would consider shifting these points to CM speed, If / When I get a speeder bike or mount.

1. What?? Please, no. This is currently just about the only special I use as a pistoleer, please don't "fix" another of my specials.

a. I don't know about comparisons to roll / kip, and I don't want to lose another special.

b. I feel stopping shot should "stop" an opponent. I would really like to see a ranged knockdown with heavy damage. But, whatever, make certain that the better skills are the highest on the tree, don't let the good stuff be at the bottom, with garbage on top.

c. Fix speed, not Fan. I am bothered with all weapon speeds being equal at the top levels.

2. Sounds good to me, make sure mastery is worth obtaining. PvP is my main concern. I hear there's some sort of a war going on? a GCW? Please let me be an effective participant.

3. Please don't feel, or suggest, that state effects are overpowering. I cannot describe how bitter I am about losing my AOE ranged knockdown. Do not mention that this is not what was intended, I did not put that ability in the game, I just LOVED it. I would feel alot better if i could cause some intimidation.

Everything else sounds fine to me, I am in good hands with Jaegen. Now, who do I have to know to get -no title- to stick?

well, that's close to what a had written out before,

- an anxious pistoleer -

Point Blank erases the distance penalty for fighting point blank. Useless with the DX2 setup, but useful with guns like the FWG5. If they fixed the AE on PBA2 then we would have three decent cone attacks to choose from. Close range, better to hit mod, random HAM on the run fanshot and hopefully MTPS Health Targeting.

Thanks, DiLune. That clarifies the difference a bit better.

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AweseomMomfo wrote:

. Pistol aiming is utterly useless and doesn't benefit anyone in the least, because it's only applied when you use the "Aim" special attack, which NOBODY uses.

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Wow, I never even paid any attention to this. This is a good argument for a mind shot, IMO. If we can "aim" for better accuracy, let me hit someone in the head. I woud certianly not "aim" for some ones limbs, maybe torso, but definitely their head.

Jaegen88 wrote:

1. Changing fan shot:
a. if you really dont want to lose this, then why did we compare this to roll/kip shot?

b. If and only if speed mods are increased, could stopping shot be better overall.

c. Fan shot is currently your highest DPS attack if you have below 90 pistol speed.

Personally, I love the idea of a cone of fire at 4x damage. If only is could alwaystarget Health...

2. Multi target pistol shot:
How about this be just the AOE cone attack with good damage? Leave fan shot as it is, make this a cone attack, and since it's the master skill, make sure it does pretty good damage? The only advantage you have with fan shot over roll/kip shot is in PvP really, and that's running and gunning. Which IMO is important.

Nah, I LOVE the idea of targeting up to 10 enemies in a 32m radius. Depending on the damage it offers and whether or not it's random HAM, this sounds like a great skill.

3. Be warned, intimidate could be overpowering and might need a timer or low chance to land (well, if that's fixed too), or really short duration, or limited range. The key here however is we know it "works", and frankly, we fear if we change to too much we might be stuck with a broken special for months to come. That's also why panic shot was popular. We know these two abilities have code already.

How about a max range of, say, 32 or 48 for Stopping Shot? You use it on somebody who's running up to you to stop them from approaching, so that sounds reasonable to me. And likeI wrote elsewhere, I like the idea of the Intimidate effect combined with a forced posture down change, so that the target is actually stopped.

4. If disarming shot 2 is an aoe version, that's fine too, I mean, it gives you options. Fighting a creature handler? Go for the AOE disarming shot, then switch to single target attacks on the owner. That's reasonable. I think all combat professions should have a fairly effective way, by mastery level, to deal with 4-5 pets at a time (faction + CH, for instance).

If we change this ability to actually make it disarm an attacker, I think that Disarm 1 should last 5-10 seconds, during which time the enemy cannot equip any weapons whatsoever. It should be on the 30-second KD timer. Disarm 2 should still affect one enemy, but should last 12-15 seconds and operate on a longer timer, say 45 seconds where you can't use the shot again.

That's my input on those topics. Great job Jaegen!