Pistoleer Archive

Issues I've picked up on in this thread:

A) Cosmetic Issues: You all asked for them so no use crying over them now. I think immersion in a class if vital to the enjoyment of the game so they were vaild points.

B) Comparison with Bounty Hunter: I think the fixes in the patch will address a universal concern with all 1 hit kills and make PvP more rewarding. Case in point, I saw 6 Imps walking around Overt near the Rebel Outpost on Rori. I targeted the medic with a Stopping Shot and her heath pool drained and down she went. I targeted the bounty hunter before he knew what had happened and he went down with one stopping shot. Finally the other 4 noticed me, but they were all lightweights. I stood my ground and dropped two more, healing in between. Finally my support arrived and the other two went down. Afterwards the Bounty Hunter and I talked and he agreed that if he had've been paying attention he may have nailed me with the Eye Shot before I had a chance to kill him. Two people dead before they started firing. Part their own stupidity, but part a broken not very enjoyable PvP experience.

With that being said, we should be different than bounty hunters. But while complaining that it takes more skill to be a bounty hunter than a pistoleer is just silly. Sure it takes 2 starting classes, but c'mon, most of us grinded through those in under a week. The big concern for pistoleers it seems was that the Pistol Master wasn't getting access to the best pistols..and that also appears to be a work in progress.

C) Dual wielding: This is a great idea but it has to be done right as to not make the class over powerful. I would suggest No specials when dual weilding pistols. Look at the animation now, poised over the gun, staring down the sites at his target and firing. A dual weilder wouldn't have that kind of accuracy or time, he'd be too busy steadying himself from the Ricochet of the first shot and to fire the second shot. The guy who brought up the loss of peripheral vision and the loss of defense was bang on. Risk and Reward should balance out.

Penalties: No specials, less accurate from long range, penalties to defensive stats, less damage/accuracy on off handed weapon.

Bonus: More damage (not obscene amounts), faster time between shots (the average of the two pistols was a great idea.) more accurate at close range.

If you made it a Master skill or even a Level IV Pistol Stances and Grips skill you would make it a rare site. The Dual Weilding could even be considered an all out offensive combat movement...More damage dealt but because you have no way to defend yourself, you take more damage as well.

D) Disarm shot: I don't like the idea of this as is...and then Damaging guns? What I envisioned was a shot that would have a chance to knock the weapon out of the person's hand forcing them to re-equip it. It should do no damage to the person and minimal damage to the gun. What that would do is give the Pistoleer like a free shot before they would have to attempt to disarm the pistol again. This wouldn't be overpowered because 1. it does no physical damage and 2. If you missed you've wasted an action and now your opponent pretty much has a free shot. The way it is set up now, it's not very valuable to me in combat unless I'm really trying to be evil to somebody an ruin their gun...The only advantage I can think of is it would make people think twice about using their best guns against Pistoleers.

But all in all, we have a good little class going and when specials get worked out, we're pretty balanced.

Dual wield for Pistoleer is an excellent idea, but I don't think penalties should apply to anything but special attacks. If you're just gunning away, penalties shouldn't apply (you're just pulling the triggers after all, and if it's going to be put in a skill tree, you've trained how to do it right, logically). However, pulling off shots that require aiming should suffer. To balance that, make a couple (like two or three at the most) dual wield special attacks. Something like a point blank special or, and I'd so love you for this, multi target pistol shot for dual wield. Especially with the animation, having one pistol shooting forward and another pistol tracking something going across the screen. I don't know if it'd be practical, but it'd be aestheically pleasing.

omg look at this

"we want special twirly pistol flourishes and a holster and a sombreo" lol and the devs are hard at work

meanwhile commando and rifleman have real concerns and they are being ignored

My apologies for two posts in a row. I forgot to read through the entire forum before I went off.

First, to the guy who said something about "testicular fortitude". I really don't want to check it, because if I had to, it means something has gone horribly wrong. But I'm not going to start with that issue here.

Okay. Pistoleer's vs BH's. First, let me agree with the idea that just because it takes more skill points to become a BH means they should own PvP. That's a crock. If Commando wasn't broken, who'd want to be a BH anyway? Only people who have this huge "I wanna be/kill Boba Fett" fetish. Like Lightning Rifle is anything compared to half the weapons in the Commando line... if they worked that is.

... but, in respect to us (being Pistoleers), being as powerful or better than BHs, no. I'm sorry, as it may seem like I'm selling out my own people, but think about it. Pistoleers, while being a combat class, should have some even footing in PvP, but Bounty Hunters, as their name implies, do two things. Track people down and kill them. The only class that should be comparable to a BH is a Commando. While the whole "it takes more skill points" arguement is a silly silly point, the idea that someone who has not only trained all of the Pistol Skills, but also the Master Marksman and specific Bounty Hunter Pistol skills having 50/50 odds against someone who trained half as much with a pistol is just ridiculous. Granted we spent all our time with Pistols, but that just means we're better with Pistols. If we fight a BH using a pistol, then I can see us having an advantage, but that doesn't mean we should automatically be able to take them. A Master Pistoleer vs a Novice Bounty Hunter should be easy. The Master Pistoleer owns them. But a Master Pistoleer vs a Master Bounty Hunter? Please! If that were the case, the Empire wouldn't hire Bounty Hunters, they'd hire Pistoleers. While the whining commences, remember that there is the necessity to keep the game fair to the spirit of the story. Though both of the Bounty Hunters in the movies died, look what it took to kill them. One got dropped into the Saarlac Pit, the other got beheaded by a MASTER JEDI. Even Obi-Wan had a hard time doing anything other than saving his own life vs Jango Fett. So let's stop crying and just get what needs to be fixed just that, fixed.

This whole Disarming Shot breaking weapons is just dumb. It should force the other character to re-equip their weapon, hence "Disarming" them. Think about it. If you're taking on NPCs, why would you want to break their weapon? Hey, if might better than yours and you might want it. If forcing a reequip is too hard for the devs, then have disarming shot put a hefty delay penalty on the opponents next attack, simulating the re-equip. Breaking weapons? That had to be a weaponsmiths idea...

And the twirly thing and holster. Sorry, Captain Power-leveler, but some of us like those little things. Not all of us are just kill kill kill all the time until we are uber powerful and then try to exploit the game and complain when we can't. Just because it doesn't give you XP doesn't mean it's not good. Personally I'd love to be able to blow the smoke (or imaginary smoke) off my pistol if I win a duel, or be able to show off my ability to twirl a pistol, or even have a quickdraw emote that shows me quickdrawing. While I agree there are more important issues facing the class, don't overlook the fact that not all of us are in it for our egos. Some of us are in it for the game.

And since I've already said my bit about Dual Wield, I bid you all ado.

Ach'leigh Seinnahi

Princess of the Derik'hur Highlands

Talus, Bria

**sigh** I can't believe they brought that list to the table, I wish they would have used our updated list

Kallek Truestryker

Master Imperial Gunfighter - Bloodfin

i hope the devs understand that filling four boxes of pistol skill and filling 16 are quite different.

in no way should any other class in the game be as resourcefull with a pistol as a PISTOLEER.

a pistoleer should have acces to all pistol weapons, moves etc that go along with all the pistols. no other class should be able to compare closesly or better what a pistol specialist can do with his pistol.

what incentive do we have to go up the pistoleer tree? we can earn bh exp faster and masterbh's can kill pve/pvp better than master pistoleers.

As a pistoleer myself, I can assure you... I'm not too happy with this corresponent.

We culd have had Dodge and Defence vrs XYZ fixed but instead we asked for a twirly move and "I wanna be a Bounty Hunter". Way to go.

I'd bet the Dev's are saying "OK Pistoleer os fine... next profession please". Good luck seeing any defensive benefits guys.

Rediculous.

As I remember this wasn't the list that I thought was submitted.

Cheese

I thought we were talking about 8/01/03, *those* were the issues I thought were top. Twirly and holster shouldn't have been there. I actually remember complimenting Jaegen for not putting that stuff on the list.

Cheese

Duel Wield should be the NEXT update!! Twirling your pistol on your finger does NOT help you combat. And that is what Pistoleer is, it is a COMBAT profession. I am not saying that spinning your pistols is not a good idea, especially in role-playing circles and overall immersive game-play, but it is not something that should come before Combat enhancing updates. In addition to the fact that Pistoleer is currently an unbalanced profession in comparison with other elite marksmen professions. This is illustrated by the fact that Pistoleer’s weapons do the least amount of damage, and have the shortest range which in turn means they take the brunt of any damage. I am not over looking the melee defense bonus and granted this does help, but in a battle against a melee aggressor Riflemen and Carbineers stand a good chance of taking little to no damage, especially when using some movement impairing attack. So with all the cons against Pistoleers duel wielding, which I could only assume would increase damage dealt, could really even out the Pistoleer profession.

Please do NOT take my suggestions as criticism! I simply feel that it is logical to work out game mechanics and profession balance first, before adding mere aesthetic updates. I have a tremendous amount of RESPECT for the development team and I commend your past and future efforts for making one INCREDIBLE GAME!

Ranende,

I think we have to test it fist. In theory I agree, was typing the same earlier to a freind in-game. A new gun is just a few credits and a hotkey away. But if it's 2 shots and no gun..hrm.

Aravan,

Also. This Disarm fix is it going to apply to Disarm2?

I really hope not, if so, we're left with nothing really special IMO.The only reason I'dkeep master if that happens is because I'd feel like I need to since I help out with them on this forum. That, or if things are added to mastery down the line. My original thought was that they did not intend to have any disarm special after beta, and that they just needed to change the names to fit the effects they finally decided upon. Disarming1 IS a random HAM fast shot that does 2x to lairs..it wasn't entirely useless, it just had a bad name. Same with DA2, just change the name to something appropriate.

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NoTiG wrote:

mY first question is: can you give the Dev's the issues with some actual stats? that way they can't BS around HARD numbers. For example the DX2 pistol is around 70-108 dmg @ 3.0 speed . the DMg of a scout blaster is 60-122 @ 1.7 . you can easily show them why the DX2 is bugged. because its a higher level weapon yet does less DPS.

And isnt that the most important issue for pistoleers right now? to get a better weapon, mainly improving the DX2 .

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I keep hearing that they can't test the pistols (ie FWG vs DX2) because no one's been able to get the proper resources in order to make a "perfect" version of any of the weapons. Why don't they go ahead and make one of the more experienced weaponsmiths in the test center, maybe the weaponsmith correspondent, a master weaponsmith, give them the good/best resources possible, have them craft the pistols using the exact same experimentation on each (or whatever the equivelent would be to making each pistol equally the same quality for its level) then compare the numbers?

I know that they don't do things in the Test Center like making someone a Master (class) so they can test some of the higher end specials or going ahead and dropping the best resources on a (master) weaponsmith so he could make a set of high quality weapons so as to compare the weapons at their best. Why not? Wouldn't that be more efficient?

Dogon another double post sorry, use to edit feature

NoTiG

My DX2 has better stats than that. In all seriousness, I think it's a resource issue. high Q resources just dont seem to be available for certain schematics, or at least in quantity. DX2 base stats are the highest pistol (aside from scatter/launcher which I dont know), with top experimentionat and 999Q or whatever resources, they should scale and stay the more effective weapon. I think it's in our next issues post, I'll fish for "best stats" and included them for reference, good point.