Pistoleer Archive

Pray tell me what the pistoleer would exactly be wasting? His own ham bar?

Come on... one shot of a StimB will heal all of your precious 10 seconds of bodyshots. Good luck with that mind pool damage. I'm assuming you havescoped weapons available too? A pistoleer without that scoped FWG will still miss a ton when blind.

If you ONLY have pistoleer, you ought to use stopping shot in PvP. Pray you can get alot of hits into his mind pool or get a lucky series of shots on his action pool he is depleting for eyeshots.

Of course if both combatants are doc buffed and you aren't riding on top of some Muon Gold + Dancer Buffs or Teras Kasi power boosted mind... get ready to visit the clone center.

Easy way to make eyeshot a non issue...create some way to heal mind. It is ridiculous to have a pool that can be damaged but not healed.

As far as BH vs Pistoleer...I don't really care how powerful any other profession is, I dont usually solo PvP so if someone is in the "uber" profession I can have one on my team. What I really want to see is my profession (pistoleer) FIXED. Give BH's a 5000 point mind shot if thats what you want to do, I really dont care, BUT FIX THE PISTOLEER SKILLS! Having a BH kick my butt in PvP would bother me alot less if I could at least have the skills that I am supposed to have to use against that BH.

Balancing can not truly be accomplished until you have fully working professions.

Cim Taurus

Master Pistoleer

Doc (0-4-3-0)

Com Med (0-0-2-3)

Im trying to make sure I understand and Jaegen please confirm yes or no.

As pistoleers, are we saying that if all things are equal (exact same pistol/stats, exact same armor, using the exact same specials, with no difference in timing, both standing/running/whatever, the same exact HAM) a Master Pistoleer should be at an advantage over anyone else with a pistol thats in the certs of the pistoleer tree (remember exact same pistol/stats)?

If the answer is yes then were saying that even a Master BH (no pistoleer tree) should be at a disadvantge when fighting a Master Pistoleer (remember: all things are equal from above)?

If thats true, then what it comes down to is the fact that Master BHs getting to use other pistols thatpistoleers dont (ie: scatter) and the fact that they get eyeshot at Pistol2 is what is swaying the advantage back to the Master BH (remember, not pistol tree)?

Im just trying to make sure I understand what the official pistoleer take is (the philosophy we are officially presnting to the devs for them to assist our further development).

Jaegen, didnt Q3PO or Holo say ina response to your infamous post in the SWG Discussion Area that Dan the Dev (our Dev) said he wasnt sure if he liked the idea of pistoleers not being the best with pistols or something to that effect?

Thanks for clearing this up for me!

-Mourf

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DarthSadeth wrote:

I would really like to see some code that prevented Bh's from using pistoleer specials with bounty hunter pistols. It would be very easy to install. It is the answer we need. I read from a Dev post somewhere that the problem with any fixes or advances for the pistoleer profession would be that a large number of BH's would benifit too. Now BHcould still take speed mods and accuracy and use Fanshot/Stoppingshot with a FWG5 or DX2, but would not be able to preform a stoppingshot with a scatter pistol. I know that any BH that reads this is gonna wet his 12 year old undies, but I really don't care. Fellow pistollers, please tell me what you think.

--Sadeth Starcloud-- --Shadowfire--

--Master Gunfighter--

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God, you're a puss. Which we could get a patch for morons like you.

Ypiana Ikilfi

Master Gunfighter / BH 1/1/4/1 - And Proud of it

You bring up a good point Vallimar by bringing in very nice powered up and enhanced weapons (that don't fall off trees) as well as armor.

Let's just horsetrade your possible damages in to what I had an see what we get. So now we have a scatter of 158-350/2.2/115 DPS and an FWG of 97-500/2.1/142 DPS. Now, with a Stopping Shot, the Master Pistoleer can get a maximum of 937 damage to a random HAM. What are the odds of a two shot kill? 14% of the time, or close to one in seven (getting two nice 500+ hits on the same HAM in a row). How about a kill in three shots? 27%. Keep in mind it would take the Master Pistoleer over 6 seconds to get those three shots in. In that same time, he could have reliably gotten a kill through BS2 in five average or somewhat below average damage shots in 5 seconds exactly.

With that scatter listed above, the BH Pistol 2 would be able to get a reliable kill in 4 shots that takes just under 9 seconds. Same rule applies. If the BH heals himself, he wins. That is considering the weapons your posed more heavily favors the Pistoleer based on the DPS change.

You also bring up the interesting question of armored opponents. However, you're forgetting that the Scatter is also Armor Piercing, which immediately harms any chance of a Pistoleer competing. The pistoleer will be forced to use a DX2 or shoot a minimum of twice as often with even more depending on the resists. Either way, you're looking at total death on the part of the MP. The BH will have incrementally more shot depending on the resists, but he won't be dealing with the automatic 50% damage reduction of the armor.

Even with the superb weapons you have listed, the MP will have to be quite lucky to ever kill a BH Pistol 2 (considering he has to hit with five consecutive BS2s while blind). The ship sinks even faster when facing a faster and more accuracte BH Pistol 3 and 4.

Also, I should note that a BH Pistol 2, even with his lower speed, will be able to kill the MP in close to the same time using the same FWG (6.6 seconds vs5 seconds). That just illustrates how effective Eye Shot is as a special, overshadowing both BS2 and BS3 in base effectiveness and only equaled by Head Shot 3.

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Ypianawrote:

Here's some clearing for you, because I used to think as you did:

One - your characters skills are not everything, how you apply them is. Having said that, let's get on the BH issue. BH is the same type of character setup as say, oh, Master Gunfighter / Master Smuggler. Or Master Doctor / Master Gunfighter. Or Master Gunfighter / Master Combat Medic. As you well know you have 33 points after reaching Master BH. Master BH is all offense, no defense whatsoever. Master BH has no bonuses to accuracy while running or standing. Master BH has no dodge (I know dodge is broken) defenses against dizzy, stun, or kd. Master BH has no pistol melee, no PBA2, no fanshot. They can get it at the cost of getting some medic or some of anything else. Just because you got nailed by a BH, relax, unless you want to nerf Smuggler's Panic Shot, which keeps you from using specials for 20 seconds. As a master gunfighter / bhwith pistol only Ican tell you that against a smart gunfighter it's already quite equal. It all depends how you apply yourself and what you do.

-- YP

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Sorry but that did nothing for me. You were talking about being owned by a BH and something about Smugglers... My questions still goes unanswered. Jaegen or Philosopher care to explain? Thanks!

-Mourf

Well I feel that the chances of a win for either profession is still quite close. While it is true the Stopping Shot is random damage, you must remember that "random" does not imply perfect 33% division to each bar. The probability is weighted.Another thing isthat no one can shoot and heal at the same time, so healing essentially gives the opponent a free shot. Given Novice Medic can only use Stim B's, it won't always necessarily make the different between a win and a loss (there are situations in which it will, but it's not guaranteed, and as the two duellers move to higher weapons, their effect is even further lessened). They also cost a fair bit of mind, so like I said before, they're increasing the odds of a death by mind.

The main edge the scatter will have is the armor piercing, but since it costsaround 80 HAM per shot with a full suit of composite, even the 6 shots you mentioned will cost quite a bit of HAM and will bring the BH into one shot kill range. Furthermore, player nerve comes into play. Some people might not continue to spam shots if they see their action is busted, and some will try to go down fighting.

In the end I'd say there are far too many individual factors, especially luck that go into the equation. You're probably right that the Master Pistoleer won't win hands down, butit's impossible to accurately say who will definitely win in this particularly situation, since it could easily go either way. I will howeversay that Eye Shot with BOTH the blinding effect AND the unhealable damage pool is quite powerful for a single special though. One or the other really isn't too much of a problem given the lower damage multiplier, but the two together is quite a powerful combination.

There's a huge delay after the heal. Healing gives the opponent 3 free shots.

Assuming that the Pistoleer doesn't have Master Marksman, they both have 1000 HAM, and no bleeds, the BH Pistol 2 (+50 speed) would need About 13.5 seconds to wear down the Pistoleer's mind bar. The MP (+74 speed) with the FWG would need about 16.6 seconds to get a Health kill using Stopping Shot (bad choice) or 10 seconds using BS2 (good choice). Things get better using the scout, where he could get it down to 9.6 seconds.

Here is the killer - if the BH Pistol 2 heals even once, he's won. He has plenty of skill points for medic, so all it would take is one non-advanced Stim-B and he's won against the Master Pistoleer." -Zerona

Let me just start off by saying that I'm not pro-BH or pro-Pistoleer. I am by no means trying to justify Eye Shot or anything, but rather I'm just saying Pistoleers are not quite as weak as some people make them out to be. Let's compare Person B with BH Pistol 2, and Person P with a Pistol. Your example was with stock low-end weapons, but I'll assume high end weapons.

Assumeboth Person B and P are both wearing similar stat composite armor (we'll assume 50% for simplicity), and assume Person B runs a 350 damage scatter pistol, and Person P runs a 500 damage FWG. The 500 damage FWG will easily deal enough damage to either a) Force a heal, b) outright kill on a lucky shot, c) Not kill, but since the FWG doesn't cost an enormous amount of HAM, it still leaves plenty of health in the player. Now Person B on the otherhand, will have a weaker shot in terms of damage, but more effective in terms of bar focus. However, in terms of damage per second, the Person P's Stopping Shot will likely obliterate one bar in 2 shots. This gives Person Ba coupleoptions. a) Spam Eye Shot which destroys his own action bar with a scatter (this still will take approximately 5-6 shots to kill given armor)...bringing himself into range for a one-shot kill from a good stopping shot, b) Heal himself which forces him to stop shooting for a second or two, while lowering the mind bar into a one-shot kill range, while still taking heavy fire from stopping shots which are cheap enough to allow continuous spam (and since BH Pistol has no way to seriously damage the action bar, the Pistoleer is safe anyways).

The key Pistoleers need to employ is the damage multiplier. Obviously as the base numbers increase, the multipliers start to cause more and more of a difference. As the weapon damage increases, healing makes less of a difference since that momentary pause to heal can be the difference between the win or a loss. Random damage can be a good thing if you get a much higher damage multiplier in exchange, since after a certain point with some weapons, one-two kills become viable, and in the high-end fights,time is everything.

Conversely, I'm not saying Stopping Shot owns all either. Once the BH reaches pistol 4, the speed coupled with say his own FWG can make a large difference and probably will end up killing the master pistoleer using the Blinding (one miss can mean everything).

There's no point jumping on a bandwagon and attacking one skill or profession being the one unbalancing item. There are so many factors to the game, it is not a good idea to go ahead and jump to conclusions. If Pistoleers get a sudden hotfix, or the BHs get a sudden nerf, we're just asking for some more fluctuations and more imbalances (I'm sure you're all familiar by now how the devs work "Whoops, we went too far! Time to go back the other way now!").

Amaster pistoleer with all 250 skill points wisely distributed among professions that lends extra power to their ability will kick the living crap out of the BH. If by some miraculous freak accident you decided to spend JUST 92 skill points on Master Pistoleer and then wonder why you got beaten, allow me to laugh at you repeatedly.

I'm a Master Pistoleer/Master Smuggler/Teras Kasi. I help lost bounty hunters find the cloning facility on a daily basis. Heck, I helped an "Expert Bounty Hunter" and his cowardly gurreck find the cloning facility a few days ago without having to use a pet. Just me and my trusty DX2.

Or roughly speaking 169 skill points beats 92 skill points. 250 skill points beats 169 skill points.

The game IS balanced. How are you spending your skill points anyway?

If you're a Master Tailor/Master Pistoleer expect to get your ass handed to you.

My god, did you kids actually read my post? It sure doesn't seem so. My intended point is that it was stated that any good fix for pistoleer would also help a great number of BH's, and many classes fell that BH is over powered. Now, I know these "overpowered" players are usually Pistoleer/BH or vice versa. I simply stated as an idea that maybe you should only be able to use a professions specials with said professions weapons. Do you all remember the first 75% reduction in PvP dmg? It was put in because to many people were being one shotted by stoppingshot from a scatter gun. If we can't get our profession fixed because of another profession, something is wrong. I'm sure that if the Devs were to give pistoleers a high powered pistol, non-Pistoleer/BH's would scream murder when eyeshot came out of it. There are plenty of other posts complaining about BH's owning everyone, this was not meant to be one. I am just trying to come up with an idea that might actually get the Devs to give us the love we so despritly need. As far as flamers go, if all you do is post to call someone a wuss, maybe you should move out of your parents basement and face the real world. These boards are for thoughts and ideas to better the game, not to make you feel like a bigger man because you cut someone down.

--Sadeth Starcloud-- --Shadowfire--

--Master Gunfighter-- --CH 3/4/1/4--

-Sadeth-Sithos-Salyzar-

Southern Fried