Pistoleer Archive

Correct Noules.

And that's just related to accuracy, which is not even the entire picture.

There are also other considerations. Being "more effective at long range" can also mean:

More effective at long range. Heh, no joke right? Being more accurate at long range, or as accurate, does not mean "more effective at long range". Huge difference.

Aldeon doesn't understand that hitting mind pool with higher damage weapons, accurately, from range, is superior to random HAM hits. He's also not including combinations like dizzy/posture change, which, again, are range superior to anything a pistoleer can do at range.

RIfleman can also DB at range, personally, I HATE fighting rifleman when we have a frontline, I usually feel safe if I get incap'd (usually a mind poison I didnt see until too late, or rifleman bleed), but when I rifleman bleed incaps me for massive mind damge, then DBs a second later. Yeah, that's "more effective at range" than a pistoleer. What do you do when a pistoleer incaps you at range? You get up or someone drags you off. Rifles have control of the situation...the other ranged professions HAVE to close the gap, and in good Pvp fights, it's more than just some dueling situation.

Obviously accuracy is not the only determinent for range superiority.

I promise you, 2 front lines equal, one has a pistoleer at range shooting at a rifleman at range, all things equal, the rifleman has the advantage. Accuracy? WTH does that have to do with range superiority, that you obviously have? Aldeon also hates the fact that 1/4 of the entire rifleman tree is geared towards going prone and firing while prone, which is another ranged advantage."go prone??? Why do we have to go prone to do better than yoU??" Well, dur, it's the way you were designed. Well,pistoleers don't exactly like that two of our trees are melee - point blank range...you know, 12m or less? But do we say "nerf rifleman"? Give me a break. Learn your profession, mix your profession to balance your weaknesses and move along.

Need I remind you,

PBAOE2

PBSINGLE2

PMD1

PMD2

Tangle pistol

SRCOMBAT pistol

DX2 ideal range 8m.

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We are alread "range limited". See how you have to look at it from both perspectives?

Fact is, right now, master rifleman are probably the most effective single combat profession out of pistoleer/carbineer/rifleman. Best DPS and best pool targeted, bleeds, etc. Add in BH and pistoleers and carbineers can compete with you. so what...nerf rifleman? Unlikely..more likely "play to your strengths, avoid your weaknesses"

Well, currently master riflemen probably are the most overall effective PvP players, although this only occurs at master. To remind you of a comparable situation, master pistoleers were the overall most effective PvP players because they had AE KD - riflemen are in a similar boat, where they're very good because of a single, overpowered aspect (in this case, speed mod). That doesn't mean they don't have issues.

You mentioned that 1 of our lines are geared towards being prone, etc. but the issue is that take cover fails quite often and does not seem to provide much of a bonus. Also, our +rifle crawl speed doesn't work (or it has a very small effect - as a master SL, I have +100 total TN, and when I'm grouped I can crawl relatively fast because of the crawl bonus for over +50 TN, but when I'm ungrouped I crawl -extremely- slowly). The main value of that branch IMO is actually the ranged defense (+2 per box).

I do generally agree that master riflemen are extremely effective when it comes to group PvP, but pre-masters don't really have much of a niche at all. Again, it comes back down to one really overpowered factor which is propping up the class, much like what Disarm2 was doing pre-KD nerf/special fix for pistoleers.

Humm..I have to say I think that people are looking at this the wrong way.

Instead of reducing the pistoleer range the solution is even more simple. Increase the riflemans ability to attack at long range. It's not an easy solution given that the Devs would have to increase the range at which we get exp. But there is NO reason a rifleman should have a range limit of 64 meters. That is what is silly. Up that to at least 100m and all will be well.

Its been stated elsewhere - but basically you CANNOT increase anyones range beyond 64m. It would totally break the game system, you would have to revamp (just off the top of my head)

Mob aggro/pursuit ranges

Turret/heavy weapon ranges

Covert scanner ranges

Mob spawn distance (what good is 100m range if the mob spawns 25m away)

Server boundaries - you'd be trying to shoot well over them in many areas

Not to mention the howls from every melee player in the game - they are barely viable vs guns with a 64m range...double it and you might as well label all melees "future corpse01"

I'll make this short, only because I'm upset and tired.

**edit** you Mr.Rifleman correspondent, and **edit** your idea of nerfing us. Why you are thinking from your ass about PvP, have you thought of the damage you'll be doing to us that hate PvP and only play in PvE? You are a moron sir! do you think that you are the only one that suffer's from warping mobs? hey look, it's a rifleman, lets warp on him. No sir, we ALL have that problem, so go get your nerf and shuv it up your ass, I'm tired of all of you coming here calling nerf when we are one of the worse, and one of the most broken off class's in the game. We have Commando's and BH that get better pistol's then Pistoleer's. We have BH and Smuggler's who get better pistol specials then Pistoleer's. They have already nerfed our accuracy 3 times, I can barely hit anything anymore, and now you want to make me worse? Hell, why stop there? Why not just petition to have the Pistoleer's removed from the game?

I am against hard range caps for pistols.

Instead:

Ideal Range is X. for every meter you move away from X, you get a negative 'to hit' modifier.

This allows you to take a shot at any distance, but if you're 30 meters away from your "ideal range" than you will miss wildly. This isn't my idea, I've seen it on the rifle boards, and thought it ought to be mentioned here.

There's still plenty to argue about as where the ideal ranges are and how much of a modifier there ought to be, etc.

It already works this way. With my DX2 at about 16m I am at -50 to hit already. And yes, I am a Master Pistoleer.

Pistolsare accurate from box 1 of pistoleer, to master pistoleer (it's linear)

Speed was broken for all professions, only at high speeds (non-linear)

There isa BIG difference between the two, stop trying to make a feud out of range vs speed. Accuracy is NOT what determines range superiority , which rifleman already have. Aldeon's pushing to get AR fixed, and we are pushing to NOT have speed changed the way the devs suggest.

Kachada,

Ideal Range is X. for every meter you move away from X, you get a negative 'to hit' modifier.

Yes, another good example of positive changes that don't nerf others, and actually make sense.

This is the point I kept trying to drive home with Aldeon, I think it's an important one. Some pistols from max to ideal range, change only -1.6 accuracy per meter, while a rifle might change -3.6 accuracy per meter. Why? Because it's a strange system. Its not like this for all weapons, T21/laser rifle have pretty good max range stats...you really have to look at the weapon you are using to figure out where you need to be to be accurate. As Noules said, instead of -50 max range, maybe it needs to be -10 or something far less drastic.

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