Pistoleer Archive
Thread: The New Defensive Mods Not So Great
Taewyn wrote:
Master Doctor=140 skill points.
Master Smuggler=121 skill points
Master Commando=169 skill points
Master bounty hunter=217 skill points.
Master pistoleer=92 skill points.
As someone said before me, all the classes you listed are more expensive then the pistoleer....
Your power is in your skill to dabble....
Take these points into acount...
- Pistoleer stacks well with multiple classes.
- Pistoleer is the cheapest a skill point invesment an "elite" profession can be.
Those two points allow you to pair with multiple classes, for an amazing power....
But lets compare...If we all only had the pistoleer skill points to spend...How far up in these trees could we make it?
Doctor= 1,1,0,0.....Could a 1,1,0,0 doc beat a pistoleer? No
Bounty hunter= You could not even make it to the class with 92 points.
Commando=You could not even make it to the class with 92 points.
Smuggler=1,1,1,1 Could this smuggler defeat a pistoleer? No
These classes are crap at 92 skill points....
So the question is.....Why should you be able to spend 92 skill points, and get a very powerful class, yet these classes can spend 92 and get next to nothing?
The point is, 92 skill points yields its biggest return in the pistoleer tree....Most of the classes you listed do not even begind to pay of in terms of power until about 120 skill points spent....
So tell me, how is that fair?
What is the point of this? We are talking about our new skill mods. We are talking about pure pistoleer. A rifleman or carbineer could take TKA or Fencer or anytihng else and have even better defenses than pistoleer. What is your point here?
The point of the original post was to examine the mods we get as pistoleer. Frankly, if you want to go down teh slippery slope of skill stacking then fine, riflemen and carbineer need to have their mods reduced. Pure and simple. A rifleman TKA would be too hard to hit when he was in cover. Its ridiculous. Throws the game out of balance? Is that where you want this to go? We are talking about what a pistoleer gets. Stop trying to change the topic to your ownagenda.
And you said "MASTERED PISTOLEER" not novice. We don't argue novice is easy to get to. Sheesh, are you plain stupid?
FallOut1214 wrote:
DiLune wrote:
Not to poke too many holes here...to qualify for BH you need 40k combat xp. to master pistoleer you need 415k combat xp. Did you REALLY master pistoleer in a week? I think not.
Actually yes, I did. I was previously BH 2444/CH 2200 before I decided to try something new. If you can solo Kamurith Defiler missions then you know how easy it would be to get all that xp. 5k Pistol xp, 500 Combat xp per killadds up VERY quickly. It's 35k Pistol, 3500 Combat xp per mission (6 lizards, 1 lair), with 2 missions per run...so that's 70k Pistol, 7k Combat every 30 minutes. I usually play 4-6 hrs. per night, sometimes less.
Now do you see how I could master Pistoleer in a week?
Oh, and it takes ALOT more than 40k Combat xp for Novice BH. Don't forget Master Marksman and Master Scout. For Novice Pistoleer you onlyneedPistol 4 and 125k more Pistol xp. Not to poke too many holes here though.....
at least another +10-20
I have no problem with a BH having better attacks and weapons that me, but being faster is ABSOLUTLY UNACCEPTABLE
Any master doc/master pistoleer only has 18 points left without the ranged line from marksman,4 with, most of us are "pure". I don't think we should be the best in the game, but I do think that pistoleer should stand alone as a combat class, carbine does and once the warp problem is delt with so will rifle. Whats wrong with us wanting to be as good as the other elite ranged classes?
Fallout- I do have an alt who is a bh, started from scratch and I gotta say the hardest part of nov BH was the App points. I finished all the skills needed while the PvP damage reduction bug was in effect last patch, ( I like to PvP with my pistoleer, who knows why. Maybe I just like giving away faction points) that fix took what, 2 days? Not exactly hard to get nov BH.
The argument has been raised (and addressed) that pistoleers should be weakerthan commandos, bounty hunters, etc.,because they have more skill points available to dabble with. I tend to agree with this opinion, however I do notlike the circumstances behind it. Allow me to elaborate. I became a pistoleer because I wanted to beproficientwith pistols. I wanted to be a gunslinger-not anunreasonable desire. I also think that many people that frequent these forums, especially the ones that are upset with the power of pistoleers, had the same goal in mind. However, the way the pistoleer profession is organized, in order to be a formidable combatant as a pistoleer, one must also have skills that have nothing to do with being a pistoleer. And like many others, I don't want to be a doctor, or a CH, or anything else for that matter in order to be what a true pistoleer should be. Bounty Hunters have this same dilema- they must master scout in order to becomea bounty hunter, but once they are a bounty hunter, their skills as a bounty hunter are quite powerful. I really think that the devs should increase the points of each skill box in pistoleer, so that if you are a master, it means something. Otherwise, there is no way to distinguish a doctor who has picked up pistoleer from a pistoleer who has picked up doctor- there is a big difference between those two players, and I think all the pistoleers really want is for that distinction to be made. In order for this to occur (and be balanced),I don't think that there should be master doctors/master pistoleers. I think that a doctor should be able to pick up two or three trees of pistoleer, and be formidabe in their own right, but not in the same right as that of a true, master gunfighter. I hope I have illustrated that people simply want to be unique as a master pistoleer, in the same sense that a master bounty hunter feels more unique than a dabbling bounty hunter.
I tend to believe that this is the crux of the issue at hand.
Overly pessimistic view IMO, melee defense is preferable to ranged defense to me just because 99% of PvE is done with melee attacks. I would much rather do well in that than well.. faction missions? You also cannot spam knockdown, if you fail on your first try your target is immune for 30 seconds regardless. Go try it in PvE, go find something and fight them until you fail a KD then keep on spamming it, they will resist every single attempt.
I'm not arguing that riflemen in general whine way too much for what they can do (hello soloing krayts with no pets), but I disagree fundamentally on bashing everything that pistoleer has just so it looks inferior to other classes.
Taewyn wrote:
On the Issue of the Dx2. The best on my server, in comparisons to the best scatters.
DX2 106-165 2.3 speed 17/42/20
Scatter 117-185 2.0 speed 17/51/17
The dx2 is not a bad gun....The lack of highqualityrhodium steel gates its full potenetial. Also the ap1 is non functional =/.
Your not looking at this from a weaponsmith view (possibly because you dont make them 
) theres more different between the two than just damage. And the speed on those scatters are wrong, someone isnt using post-patch projectile barrels if thats what your seeing. Mine are 120-188/1.8 compared to a 106-163/2.4 dx2 on my server. Damage and speed pretty much go hand in hand.Two imbalanced issues you overlooked were
range modifiers
ideal for a scatter is +40w/ the same scope on a dx2 its -7. I dont think the negatives at pointblank matter much since /pointblank specials ignore the penalties. scatters are terribly more accurate than a dx2.
construction
heres the clencher, a scatter only has 1 power handler and uses a feed mechanism with a projectile barrel.
projectile barrels (now that they are fixed) give much bettermods than a blaster barrel does.
projectile feed mechanism - this component has a slot to place an enhancer in it. Common ones add +20 to max damage or -0.2 to speed but there has been a legendary drop that adds 85 to min damage +300 to max damage and -1.544 to speed, DX2s dont get this mod therefore cannot be enhanced
Power handler - scatters use just one power handler and therefore a high krayt enhancement candidate. The best krayt tissue reported was a +202 -2.02 tissue. Theres no chance of more than a single tissue on a drop like this, the highest tissue drop i have ever heard of w/ like serial #'s of 5 or more was a +56 -0.38 tissue.
dont forget for a scatter both those enhancers STACK
best possible scatter pistol conceivably possible 205 - 688 / 0.3 spd BEFORE a slice and without a powerup requiring 1 legendary tissue and 1 legendary feeder
best possible DX2 ever - 106-219/2.0 before a slice
Not to mention that 5 identical krayt tissues are going to cost you as much as 500k on some servers just to get that DX2 whereas a scatter w/ just +20 feeders and 1 +56 tissue will cost just 100k in tissues .. feeders are easy to get just kill nym all day long for xp. That scatter for a considerably lower investment comes out 120-244/1.4
If you want to help the DX2 atleast petition for a projectile barrel and feed mechanism.. afterall it fires ACID not blaster bolts. Atleast it has a chance and getting enhanced.
BeWary wrote:
You can turn the animations off, I noticed this when I was "lol"ing at someone in combat and my toon stoped fighting to slap a knee.( I also use "wanna" often and the foot stomping animation attached to it is annoying) Turn em off and the only problem you have is that you look a lil deadpan when you "lol" and your toon stands stock still.
how do you turn off animations? is it a setting in game? does it fix the dodge thing?
that would rule
I seen anyone on this thread who disagrees with my observation that these defenses don't do much to help us, aside from Taewyn's comment that even though the defense mods don't help Pistoleers, they're great if you also get Teras Kasi Artist along with Pistoleer.
My impressionis that the people on this forum are interested in making sure that Pistoleer works even if you decide not to be a TKA, so at least now we can all work together to get our defenses addressed ... along with everything else.
Don't bother responding to Taewyn, by the way. She/he likes to come over from the Bounty Hunter forums and hijack threads -- this has happened many times before. Her goal is usually to troll and tell us why Pistoleer is so great the way it is. Since none of us agree with her, just ignore her and let her go back to the BH forum and leave us alone. She just likes getting a reaction from people.
Upon the same token eeman, you agree the DX2 is not as good as it could be...
However, the scatter is incredably more expensive to use....
Cert for scatter=160 points.
Cert for DX2=45 points.
There is nothing barring a pistoleer from obtaining a scatter, save for a hige skill point sink.
Hence if they made the DX2 any more powerful, what would be the point of having the scatter so high up on the skill point chain?
Again, the logic that the DX2 somehow "sucks" only comes from trying to compare to a gun that costs vastly more to use...Its apples and oranges....
The DX2 is a good weapon for a 45 point investment...If the ap1 were working the gun would be a **edit** fine investment for 45 points....