Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Post from the DEV's hard speed cap will now be weapon specific
SloreMerker wrote:
You pistoleers are pathetic.Your still bitching about BH even afterspeed cap is lowered and the devs say they are fixing your skills. What the dev's should do is ban all you whining newbs from the boards because you are the main reason this game is getting ruined. The dev's cant deal with people whining so they have to appease. Pathetic. Utterly pathetic. And on a side note, all you big babies who nothing but cry all day about BH have ruined the rifleman class indirectly. One of the ignoramus' who posted said he 'just wants the game balanced'. Lets be honest, not one of you babies wants the game to be balanced. I dont see all you people crying on the chef boards and droid engineer boards to fix them so the game is balanced. You people just want to be unbeatable.
Pot, Kettle. Kettle, Pot.
i'm not a pistoleer, but i was interested in some of the pistoleer thoughts on the proposed changes. (i'm a carbineer, meself). i think that you guys have some real good points here (esp. about the speed design flaw, whcih i also read in a reply to q's post). however, i must say that i am NOT in favor of changing the hard-caps, and i'd like to say why. first, if a pistol is 6 times faster than a rifle, then the rifle would have to be 6 times more powerful to retain a parity of dps (assuming that every shot hits. not even going to go into accuracy and misses here.) riflemen, and rifles in general, are already capable of massive amounts of damage from a single hit. so are carbines. much more than pistols, in large part because of high armor pierce available to carbines/rifles.
however, since the weapon's damage would be increased, the damage from specials would be increased. i have a carbine right now that i use (laser carbine, medium armor pierce, damage of 50-350, energy damage, HIGH ham costs) that under ideal circumstances can do over 4-5k damage a hit (crippling shot v. ar0 while kd). assuming that carbines retain a 1 second speed cap (hah! yeah right) in order to retain dps parity, a doubling of damage to the weapons would occur. or at least, double what is capable by pistols. a sliced fwg5 my friend has does 50-200 damage (or something similar to that). so, a carbine with 100-400 damage range would need to be in place...which means to me, that carbines will be firingthe samebut with no or little increased damage, despite what was posted (you'll note, the speed changes, and THEN the damage). now then, that's if the 1 second delay is kept. even a .5 second delay (1 shot per 1.5 seconds) would require a boost of damage by 33%, or a 133-533 carbine. if this is still the laser carb, then damage of over 8k wouldn't be out of the question. riflemen would be able to do even more damage in one hit.
how long until the cries for nerfs would ensue, and damages are reverted to what they are now, with pistols capable of firing twice as fast? i don't mean just nerf-cries from you, but EVERYone. i can only think of how this would, ultimately, be a massive waste of time or...help pistol-users. to retain dps parity, a rifleman would be able to do over 10k a hit. there is NO WAY the devs will allow this (at least, not for long). or am i just missing something here?
just my thoughts, hope i didn't offend.
The new cap is still stupid, but that is just not the problem, the main problem is that the formula is broken.
The new cap will not really help to make fast weapon useful, or to make speed powerup useful, once you hit the magical 100 weapon speed.
But the main problem is still, skill enhancemnt is currently broken. Once that is fixed everyone will have 100 weapon speed, unless they limit it to 1 enhancement of each type then so far the max I have seen is a +25, but that will increase over time.
DiLune wrote:
Right...so 6 fanshots doing 800 dmg per hit (200 in PVP) come out to roughly 1200 dmg. Now granted this is not targeted on one pool. So lets say MTPS does 1000 dmg targetted on the health pool. Now you are doing 250 dmg on health...6 times...vs 10 opponents...before the rifleman can get off his second shot. Okay, now we have 2 pistoleers...now we have 4....one vs one pistoleer will not own everyone. Grouped...pistoleer will own the world. How will opposing medics be able to keep up with 8 shots per second doing 250 dmg to health, per shot, on ten people...meaning that 10 people are each taking 2000 dmg per second?
I know, I know, it may not come out like that, but even if its 125 dmg per shot that's 1000 dmg per second, per target. Solo we are just a branch, together we are the entire tree.
I have never had my fan shot do 1k per second. I'm lucky when it hits for 800, which is like 200 in PvP. if I use stopping shot (which doesn't stop anything but rate of fire), I have like a 4 second pause, more then enough time for that rifleman to get his 1k hit off of my 900 ham pool or 600 mind pool. I you read my previous post, the DPS for these class's have to match in order to be fair. What a rifle man hit's for in a 10 second period, carbine's and pistol's should be able to do the same thing. What set's us apart from each other is our specials and what they do. For instance, Pistoleer's don't get stat's, is that fair? I'd say no, but we are given more defenses so it balances out. Look at it this way:
Pistoleer's = master's of targeting and hiting health pool, healable pool, only reduces from damage. Pistoleer's have low damage, high speed, only advantage is we have better defenses (I wish they worked properly)
Carboneer = Master's of targeting and hitting Action pool. healable pool which reduces from damage and usage of specials. Moderate damage, moderate speed. advantage they have, Their opponent helps in defeating himself when using specials. PvE advantage is different, KD (unforntunate nerf 
) and AE fire/kd
Rifleman = master's of targeting and hitting Mind pool. NON-healable pool which reduces from damage taken and usage of healing supplies (stimpacks and such), High damage, High speed. Advantage they have, targeting a pool which is normally the smallest pool on a player of creature, a NONhealable pool, and a player who is defending will hurt myself if he tries to heal.
BOTH carboneer and rifleman have stat effects pistoleer's don't. They have alot going for them, we have defenses that end up hurting us more then helping us (already proven on another thread). So you see, our DPS should equal the same, but we have our str and our weakness's and our class role of being able to do what I just pointed out is what defines those professions. A 1 shot kill should NOT be a defining roll of a profession, which is what the carboneer's and rifleman's i've been seeing here are stating (beating around the bush to state).
True BH, 0/1/3/1.
Ah ah, can't stop laughing. I'm a True Doctor, I'm 4 0 0 0 medic
Kid, can't you realise :
1) as long as BH speeds mods will stack with others's ones, it ONLY gives the BH an ENORMOUS power. Only YOU will be able to reacg the new cap and shoot Eye Shot or Torso Shot TWICE PER SECOND !
2) we NEVER asked for THAT. This is plain stupid.
3) BH shouldn't be able to kill at will. They should have a SMALL advantage but not alone against 4 and win.
Now please, go troll elsewhere, some of us are better BH than you are.
2) Riflemen -currently- have a better DPS than pistoleers at master due to the weapon loadout and the busted speed equation, but it certainly isn't 6 to 1, which is what a 0.5s to 3s cap implies. This is a band-aid fix for the symptoms of a broken system which will have even more consequences in the future.
3) Furthermore, riflemen have larger penalties while moving or standing that pistoleers (due to the accuracy bonuses from pistol) and they suffer more damage from melee (which currently includes flamethrowers and LLC - it's routine for riflemen to get hit for 800 in PvP with -autofire- FT or LLC). Pistoleers have fewer disadvantages; it seems reasonable that carbine and rifle should have some advantages to counteract that fact. Otherwise there's no purpose in rifle or carbine.
4) Rifle CAN hit mind. Not all of our specials do, and our best damage attacks are random HAM like everyone else. Also, riflemen specials ALL draw significantly from the mind pool. EVERY SPECIAL MOVE THE RIFLEMAN HARMS HIS OWN MIND. Whether or not the special actually hit. This is *another* disadvantage for which riflemen should be compensated in some way, probably with somewhat better special moves (since the penalty applies to specials, it's reasonable that the specials are what compensates).
if, as i read somewhere else, 1 sec is the fastest they can get stuff to fire, wouldn't dual pistols make sense?
1 pistol firing at .5 = 2 pistols firing at 1 sec doesn't it? sorry if this idea was already addressed here, got the wife standing in the doorway tapping foot as i write this
vive la revolution
Kaellok wrote:
however, since the weapon's damage would be increased, the damage from specials would be increased. i have a carbine right now that i use (laser carbine, medium armor pierce, damage of 50-350, energy damage, HIGH ham costs) that under ideal circumstances can do over 4-5k damage a hit (crippling shot v. ar0 while kd). assuming that carbines retain a 1 second speed cap (hah! yeah right) in order to retain dps parity, a doubling of damage to the weapons would occur. or at least, double what is capable by pistols. a sliced fwg5 my friend has does 50-200 damage (or something similar to that). so, a carbine with 100-400 damage range would need to be in place...which means to me, that carbines will be firingthe samebut with no or little increased damage, despite what was posted (you'll note, the speed changes, and THEN the damage). now then, that's if the 1 second delay is kept. even a .5 second delay (1 shot per 1.5 seconds) would require a boost of damage by 33%, or a 133-533 carbine. if this is still the laser carb, then damage of over 8k wouldn't be out of the question. riflemen would be able to do even more damage in one hit.
If you increase the damage on carbine's and on Rifle's, then raising the speed cap is STUPID, for lack of a better word. What would then be the point of raising the speed cap for them? The only thing you will accomplish is making those class's more powerful in PvP with one shot kills and help them kill stuff off faster in PvE with single or two shots (8K damage? common you can kill a bolle bol for 2500 exp in one shot then! something that will take us 45 seconds to a minute and a half plus 5 to 10 snare traps).
You have to think about it logicaly. It's obvious that Pistol's are suppose to be very very very fast. Rifle's are suppose to be slow. The dev's have your damage set and are happy with the damage, for all of us. The only flaw they saw is that once rifle and carbine hit their 100 and capped at 1 second, they now become overpowered and the pistol line was underpowered because they can't surpass that cap. So now you have two class's that are the SAME. Although one is called Rifleman and the other is called Pistoleer, They are actually the same thing, both shooting for one second, only difference it one shoots for a couple of hundred points of damage, the other shoot's for a couple of thousand points of damage. All they need to do is leave the damage where it's at, and increase your delay cap to 3, that should bring the overall DPS more in line with each class, giving you a logical balance. If you tell me that this is not balance, then please explain to me how you doing one shot kills and me trying to kill the same thing but taking me a full minute to do is logical? You have to look at the DPS at the end. It has to balance with each other. If you look at PvP, you'll see that DPS will give all class's a fair chance, instead of your 8k PvE which will do like 1k in PvP, while pistol's will be doing 1.5K PvE which is like 200 points in PvP, most people have their HAM under 1k, which gives you the advantage for a one shot kill.
So, the conclusion, leave the damage alone, raise the delay on Carbine and Rifle until our DPS is consistent with each other. Please, don't mention again about Missing and dodging, you are not the only ones that have to deal with MOB's and player's dodging and yourself missing, we have that problem too you know, and to my knowledge, everyone was nerfed once on aiming, Pistoleer's where nerfed 3 times on aiming. So please, that's a sensative subject, don't mention that crap again. Thank you.
If pistolteers get .5s shots then their damage will double, will devs allow your damage to double? if they do not then your weapon's condition goes out faster. However your weapons are easy to make anyway, FWG5 only takes 1 power handler and 1 kryat tissue would make it uber. I fought with a master Pistolteer, he hits for 1500/s already (he hit me for over 400 pts damage per second). Pretty soon i imagine he'll be hitting 3000/s.
Rifleman will get the 3s cap, so then.. how will that affect Rifleman damage? Well.. as of now, i can hit for 2000 damage with my sliced T21. If they double the damage to 4000 every 3 seconds we will hear a LOT of griping from all classes about Rifleman sniping them in 1shot kills during PvP. Not only that, but after AR3 is factored in, it'll be 8k damage every 3s against an AR0 creature (even worse when it's fixed for pvp). Even more massive complaints as people see only the numbers over heads (and pistolteers like my friend would probably do 9000 every 3 seconds). Of course if you don't shift the damage for a rifleman to double, then the handful of rifleman that exist will leave the profession. Why? because of the 129 mind damage per shot. It is what makes being a rifleman hell, the extra damage is the only consolation we have. I don't think any pistolteer has ever imagined what it would be like if pistols drained from mind instead of health and action. Rifleman will have lower dps than a pistolteer and sustain mind damage for shooting it, plus have massive penalties just for being a rifleman.
What do i think? Well.. doubling the damage for rifleman and lower mind costs significantly, 3s min speed is fine and fair so long as the community understands how painful it is to be a rifleman (we have no health nor action). Making a pistolteer uber fast is fine with me. Though i do think the accuracy at 64m is a bit ridiculous. Every class should have their advantages. Pistolteers should own at close range, maybe get some sort of damage bonus, and Rifles should own at max.