Pistoleer Archive

Ive proposed for him to test with me countless times, each time he has ignored me. Maybe you can convince him to prove me wrong. Oh not to mention I have tests with this. I will give you the link in just one second.

Then heres a log of a Master Pistoleer, and Novice Pistoleer using non-styles at 64 meters.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=rifleman&message.id=4634&highlight=Accuracy#M4634

Here is a test of a master pistoleer doing styles at 60 meters.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=rifleman&message.id=6235&highlight=Accuracy#M6235

Now chances are alot of people will not believe me, therefore im asknig the pistoleer correspondant to do tests with me.

No offense Ald - but I said it in your forum and I will say it here:

1 - You are the one calling for a nerf based on a "perceived" accuracy imbalance

2 - Therefore it logically falls on YOU to provide the tests which "prove" your accuracy problem - not us. Nor anyone else

I've said it elsewhere - ALL accuracy with specials is too high - not just pistoleer - I'm usually hit 75%+ of the time by moving rifleman at melee range using expert headshot. Heck I've had master rifleman spring back up from being pistolwhipped down and drop me with anexpert headshot at 1m range - so clearly rifleman accuracy is broken as well right?

Note I didn't troll and say this in your forum but I will say it here - this whole "nerf pistoleer range" idea is a whiney cry-baby reaction to from the "leet dudez" of the rifleman who are bitter that theywon't be abledo 600+ pt shots at 1.0spd in pvp anymore.

Ald, you really need more samples to get good figures.

33 trials is at best a precision of 3% (if I hit 0 out of 33, it's 0%, if I hit 1 out of 33, it's 3%) which is a very high figure for a precision, and the expected error is also very large - we're talking about 15% or so. Your result of 14 out of 32 could very well reasonably be anywhere from 9/32 to 19/32, which is a huge variance.

To get a rough ballpark, you need about 100 trials. If you want 2.5% accuracy, you really need about 200.

Riflemen miss 50%? I have a couple of friends who are riflemen and we duel semi regularily and I guarentee you that 50% is WAY off. I can do 1s Stopping Shot for 400-500 damage a tick and I still lose a fair amount when a rifleman gets a good roll on master headshot or Strafe Shot (I think that's what it's called) and you get 1 hit incapped. I can win with Eyeshot a bit more often, but again it sort of depends since they typically can get off 2 shots before you kill them. Either way 50% is way off base, it is kind of pointless of count normal attacks if that is what you are calculating since pistoleer and riflement attacks seem to both have very high accuracy modifiers.

Here's what I don't understand.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the rifleman correspondent is right and we are more accurate than they are. Why does this mean that we should be unable to fire outside of 35m or that they should be able to kite us? It just means that they need an accuracy boost.

I think both of the things the riflemen mention (speed and accuracy) are red herrings. There is no connection between being more/less accurate and needing to kite other professions. Just ask for an accuracy boost and that solves the problem.

All my pistols are -70 to -90 at maximum range already.

Listen, if it will stop this, you have an offer for free Enhance D buffs and stimming on Intrepid if you'd like to create a Pistol I and Rifle I character and test BS1 vs HS1 and auto attacks. You can test the autofire and autofire while running till the cows come home and I'll supply the CDEFs for use. As long as you give enough time for the Pistol I guy to rest mind, we should be able to put a definitive answer to the accuracy question. I think I can score some spices to help with the mind regen as well. And I will wait as long as it takes to get the shots required. Shouldn't take more than a couple of hours and we can put a nail in the coffin of this poor horse.

On a more lighthearted vein...as a random drop on Lok, killing canyon corsairs at their base, I got a FWG5. Yes, FWG5 random drop. It had a skill mod built into it already. Take Cover +7. Maybe this would help you with your take cover skill? (unfortunately I'm not joking about this...)

To start off, I'll let everyone know I have a pistoleer (and master CH) on Starsider (name's Kokichi), a fencer on Ahazi (Raphael), and my most recent character, a rifleman on Bria (Risu). So yes, I know what it is like to be a brawler / rifleman / pistoleer. I included the names so incase you don't believe me you can look me up sometime.

Anywho, here's the thing; my rifleman, Risu, is the character I currently play as. Sure, I play as my other two sometimes, but generally I use Risu. And let me tell you - going up the rifleman tree is hard. A lot effing harder than it is to go up carabineer or pistoleer. You shoot EXTREMELY slow and you miss nearly EVERY OTHER SHOT. It is HIGHLY irritating! Sometimes I hunt Baznitches on Dathomir, and even though I'm in a group, I still get like 400 exp per kill since I attack so slow. Not to mention we have the lowest minimum damage. My laser rifle is pretty good IMO, but it has a minimum damage of 23. Mods don't help - they are in %s, not actual numbers, so what good is 32% of 23? Woohoo, an extra what, 7.3damage?

Anyways, the 2.5x melee is also rediculous. The devs probably thought it would balance the mind issue, but you know what? RIfleman use mind to use specials. Bounty hunters use action to use Eye Shot. And yes, I bring BH into this because many pistoleers are BHs and they use eye shot a lot. So yeah. We nearly kill ourselves just using our specials. I have my willpower and focus BOTH maxxed out, and I STILL take massive amounts of mind damage from my own attacks. Rediculous.

Now, pistoleers are extremely good. They have guns from like 120-250, and that's just a seeming 'good' gun, nothing extraordinary. And with the Kyrat Tissues these FWG5 babies are pow-er-ful. Rifles don't really work well with kyrat tissues, unfortunately.

Let's also think about this logically; you guys use a pistol, my Risu uses a rifle. A good rifle in real life can hit about 500m away. I realize that this wouldn't work well with the SWG engine, but Rifleman do need to shoot from farther away; it makes perfect sense. Pistols don't shoot as far as rifles do. And yes, I realize that they are "laser" and not bullets or whatever, but this is also a game balance issue. Rifles do do a lot of damage, but that's only if we're lucky, and only if we are master rifleman, which, may I remind you, many of us are not.

If they do increase the range on rifles I think it should be about 100m. That sounds reasonable, really. Maybe a little less, maybe a little more. But hey, Rifleman already have horrible accuracy. We would really only start to shoot when we're prone. Taking cover sucks arse as it is; it's broken. Then pistoleers whine that they will be kited. Well guess what? Now you know how my fencer (and squalls, and snorbals, and leviasqualls, etc.) feel. But hey, pistoleers could always burst run to us then shoot us, right? Or you could call some friends and have them come attack us. Or something. I don't really know. All I do know is that one way to balance out rifleman vs the other classes is to make rifleman hit from farther and have less accuracy at their maximum distance, but they need a wider range of +s to accuracy.

Oh yeah, and your correspondent (no offense, but it sounds like he just wants pistoleers to be God -_-) keeps on saying "wear armor, our FWG5s have no AP, wah wah wah". Well GUESS FREAING WHAT!?!?!? Wearing armor and being a rifleman is suicide. Why? Because rifleman need high focus and willpower. Without it we kill ourselves. If we equip armor we'll be healing our mind 5 points every 3-5 seconds, since our willpower (or focus, forget which one it was) will be down to 20-something instead of 500-something. So quit using that argument.

Masterxander

Keep in mind that rifle ham costs will be lowered as a result of all this, also they have been talking about making mind damage healable in some way.And i've been giving it some thought but another solution to the armour problem riflemen have would be to give them their own line of armour with low mind encumberance or at the very least their own special helmet with a low mind cost.Since mind damage is currently unhealable and not easily buffable ( i do believe their is a mind buff available from dancers but i could be wrong) i dont think allowing riflemen (and medics) access to a low mind encumbernace helm would be at all unreasonable.

I am sorry, but pistol range needs nerfing.

There is a great disbalance between rifle/carbine/pistol ranges and accuracies right now.
Range cannot be added to rifle. Apparently 64 meters is teh max range for the game do to some coding issues. The devs have stated that 64 meters is the ceiling.

That said, I believe that a pistol should be about as accurate at 50 meters as a rifle is at 10 meters. Basically you'll miss 4 out of 5 times. The operational range for the pistol is far wider than that of the rifle and, to a lesser extent, the carbine. It is not your profession that needs nerfing, but your weapons.

If the operational range of the game is 64 meters, divide it up between the 3 weapons.
you get about 20 meters worth of operational range. Riflemen already only have about 20 meters of operational range. 60-40 m. Have carbine work in 40-20, and pistol 20-0.
Shoot outside those ranges and you should be missing wildly.

Yes take the shot, but higher instances of missing. The max range for every weapon can remain 64 meters, but through in killer accuacy mods to make it an unattractive option to shoot outside your optimal range.

my 2 cents

Well said, Inhocmark. Well said.