Pistoleer Archive

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deadnewbie wrote:

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What does Pistoleer add to those templates?

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A lot of speed. A lot of accurracy. A lot cheaper than bounty hunter. I like smuggler specials. A Master pistoleer/BH has absolutely nothing on a Master Pistoleer/Smuggler. I regularly lay waste to the population of pistoleer/BH on Sunrunner.

A Pistoleer/BH has ... less than 3 seconds to kill a pistoleer/smuggler. A Pistoleer/smuggler has 15 seconds to kill any profession in the game pretty much unchallenged. Panic shot buys you 10 sec. At master pistoleer speed (or BH Pistol IV speed) this means 1 panic shot and 4 Last Ditches before your target can react. Low blow buys you another 5. If you can't kill someone in 15 seconds with a master elite profession, you're doing something very wrong.

It's certainly true that you can go BH Pistol IV/Dirty Fighting IV but it doesn't leave you a lot of room for the extra goodies.

I make a bad habit of walking up to commandos and beating the stuffing out of them. I take the flame thrower blast head on, kill them, sit down and watch all the wounds go away in about 3 minutes. If I'd gone the BH Pistol route, this wouldn't be possible.

BH Pistol is useful but it's not useful for every template. For the smuggler looking out to make the most of their skill points in a well rounded manner, BH Pistol is just not the way to go.

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Well I'm willing to take your word for it. I do agree that Pistoleer adds speed, but 90+ points seems like a lot to spend on pistol speed and nothing else. But a few points:

1) Isn't PanicShot broken? It was the last time I checked. Maybe it got fixed in the last patch.

2) As a Smuggler, if you're going to spend all those points on Master Pistoleer to get speed (but no useful specials) why not spend the points on BH Pistol and as much speed but useful specials?

3) If you've found knockdown to be effective, are BHs using knockdown against you? They have a dizzy/knockdown combo, which you don't have. I have BH knockdown myself but don't use it because I can just kill anyone in 3-5 shots with EyeShot.

Making mind the unappealing HAM pool target is easy. If your intent is running around without any preparation, you're going to lose. Chomping through that much mind locked up in a helmet is tough for any BH. By the time the BH spamming Eye Shot gets it anywhere remotely definable as "low", he's got a pretty shredded action pool ripe for a lucky random pool attack.

1. Panic shot is fixed. It is simply glorious now.


2. I find TKA meditate to be an excellent accompaniment to the Smuggler/Pistoleer. Having it means I can take out combat medics, commandos, and bounty hunters without worrying about the wounds. 20 wounds every 4 seconds and the ability to do away with disease/poison should never be underestimated. Going BH would make this largely impossible. (Most annoying thing I ever fought was a CM/smuggler. Disease. Then feign. Ugh.)


3. It comes down to who fires first. With Last Ditch I drop a good deal of human targets in 5 seconds. I have a KD/dizzy combo in Teras Kasi, Unarmed Knockdown 2.

Not a fair comparison. How about Pistoleer doctor + 48% comp helmet versus BH pistol + doctor buffs + Novice Medic + 48% comp helmet. Compare apples with apples, thanks

Ahh, so now you are using other chars to back your toon up? This debate is about self power only, any char can tap into another char to make them stronger.

So anyone who spends 200+ skill points on combat will own a BH? Ok, how about a Master Pistoleer/Master Carbineer/medic/scout? That guy is going to get wasted by a BH. Or even worse, aMaster Teras Kasi Artist/Master Swordsman

Idiotic combat templates will not kill a Bounty hunter, no amount of tweaking or nerfing will ever make up for people who put together dumb charicter comboes.

Also, do not misquote me...I did not say anyone who spends 200+ skill points in combat will own a BH...I said a 200+ skill char could....That does not mean Idiots who throw together any template and expect to win every time.

here is a list of things to remember.

1.) Diversity=Power...NO your TKA+fencer will not defeat a TKA+Pistoleer....

2.) Look for things that work well with each other.....Pistoleer+ carbineer do not stack well...Pistoleer+doctor, or Pistoleer+smuggler do....Carbineer+Combat medic do....Grab things that stack.

Pistoleer lines+Smuggler pistol techniques+Medic....

TKA+Creature handler+medic

Combat medic+pistoleer/carbineer

Carbineer master+doctor....(I love how quick scatters draw action)

I will not list commando, because frankly they suck in PvP combat...Any person who adds commando to thier template either

1.) Was atracted only by high damage numbers, and has no concept of PvP whatsoever

2.) Is TEF griefer.

I've even beaten a Teras Kasi Master at melee range using BH pistol specials

Either that guy

1.) Really really really sucked...

2.) Or thats a bold faced lie....

He should have had no problem KDing+dizzying you, and if he did. he should have had no problem destroying you while healing himself, if you remained in meelee range.

Sorry Philospher. I would not belive the above statement until I saw it, frankly I stay the freak away from TKA's because up close they will tear any ranged user apart.

BTW....I do my Overt run every day, on a server that has 3 rebels for every 1 Imperial ....I have been beaten two times.. (not inluding cloning zerg rushers hehe)

Once by a Pistoleer who landed a very lucky fan shot....And the other time was a carbineer who actually was using domination on me for 450+ damage a pop, was too much damage to keep up with heals.

Somone with the BH line is very effective....But not immortal...

Also if youll note my post, the number one issue...

1.) Make BH mods non stackable with other mods.....

lol I did not read the second page...

Everyone who posted after is right

and San Tzu template should win most of the time against my template all other things being equall...

In the end no one template is really "God"...The BH template is strong, but how many points is there left to dabble?

The pistoleer+Smuggler Dirty fighting template is the same, if not stronger, and you can still take something like TKA or Medic or commando.....

Right now, with the state of the game as it is, pistoleer/smuggler is top dog for 1 on 1 pvp. That's the least amount of points used for the most wtfpwn.

It's easy to say "Nerf class X" but it's a lot more challenging to say "Nerf class combo X/Y". This is the disadvantage for bounty hunter as a profession; it's too easily identified.

If you say "Nerf class combo XY" then class X says "No we suck. This is the proof." Class Y comes along and says the same thing. And everyone agrees that classes X and Y suck leaving those who have the combination to dominate.

button we should 1v1 sometime soon..i wanna test that smuggler/pistol

i havent lost a 1v1 in a month or so

i am quite good in PvP since i can be buffed and heal myself i can take out many an imp

a friend of mine and me took out 15 imps last night in bestine

it was just me and him

If you PvP at all, you'll quickly realize there are an awful lot of bad PvP'ers out there. I've won far more than I lost, but a lot of that is simply because I'm far more prepared.It helps that master pistoleer/master doctor is a pretty nice pvp template. Tons of people don't wear armor in PvP and it makes for some really easy duels that end in less than 5 seconds...sometimes less than 3.

I actually enjoyed the couple days of having the additional 75% damage reduction. I think it added more strategy, even though the battles went on forever. As it is right now, random chance is a much bigger factor than I'd like it to be.

And wow, didn't realize that panicshot was fixed. 10 seconds + knockdown is a long, long time in a PvP battle. Does panic still have a cone area on it too?

If Eveshot goes to Master......Then

Mind Poison should be Master Combat Medic.

and

Head Shot 3and Mind Shot 2 Should be Master Rifleman.

It's all the same..Wear a helmet, get Entertainer mind buffs and there you go. It would take 25 eyeshots to kill you, and I'd say that's a lot.

Does panic still have a cone area on it too?

yes it does. I was in a group PvP battleyesterday and was able to panic shot as many as 5 imps at a time with it. The cone is 45 degrees So it can cover alot of ground.

When I PvP I do it for hours at a time.

First, using spice and short duration food and running to the cantina isn't something most people do on a consistent basis. It's also more overhead, not everyone has the time/contacts/energy to have full stocks of buff packs/doctors to buff them, food, and spice. But that's just a statistcal thing...anyone CAN, but usually doesn't...leading to the next point...

EVEN if that were so (it's not), all things equal (buffs, armor, shields, healing ability, gun damage, food, spice, etc.), eyeshot being not-healed and having a blind to boot makes it on average, better than anything you're gonna dream up.

so you buffed mind to 3K? So your opponent can too. So your health is 3500? Well so is theirs. 50% composite? No problem. Ah, but they get:

A scatter on you: Higher average damage on armor than both the DX2 and the FWG5

Speed cap

Higher accuracy and reduce YOUR accuracy through a perma-blind.

What are you gonna spam that outdoes eyeshot?(nothing)

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Maybe some combos with knockdown/dizzy can give someone the edge, but on average, eyeshot/scatter has the edge in every..single...situation. Maybe if you have a gun that's 2x as good as your BH opponent, then THAT is what won the fight, not tactics or skill or eyeshot and speed cap not be superior.

That's why everyone specs BH pistol, no shame in it, the devs goofed when it comes to mind damage, they admitted it.

Not to say dabbler/BH/pistoleer is "god mode", quite the contrary. Unless they ARE stacked with buffs/food/super stim Bs, they lack versatility, big heals, the ability to stop bleeding in many cases (most cases), etc. Just on average, it's better.

And that's just solo. In group PvP when you have doctors tailing you popping 1900 action/health heals, and CMs popping ranged heals, mind pool wins the day. At least it does when I play, I dont generally die to health/action, cant recall the last time other than from ATSTs and multiple pets that hit for 100% damage.

Panic is now 10 seconds? + lowblow knockdown...that's what..15s of no fire and a window of only 20s in between to attack? Hrm. Interesting..seems a bit over the top, but then again, anything that helps pistoleers helps folks on this forum...I suppose at least there are good working specials we have access through other lines