Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Best shot pistoleer's have post patch?
Zalas did a good job of explaining why BodyShot2 is better than BodyShot3 unless you're at Master.
I have no idea, however, why he'd say that you're better off with a random HAM attack than a targeted health special in PvE but NOT in PvP. Random HAM specials target health as well -- 55% of the shots hit health -- so you might as well have 100% of the shots hitting health. In PvP the only time it makes sense to use random HAM is when your opponent has a very low action or mind bar.
I don't think I agree with Ypiana's analysis at all, as someone who is a Master Pistoleer as well as a 0/1/4/1 Bounty Hunter.
EyeShot and TorsoShot are bothWAY better than any special in the Pistoleer tree, by far. All the discussion you had about PvP post-patch is due to a bug that's being fixed in the hotfix this morning, so everything will be back to normal soon. Eyeshot is extremely powerful because mind damage is unhealable and because the blind state effect has a strong effect on the enemy's accuracy. Torso has a 3.0 damage multiplier (BodyShot3 only has 2.5) plus it has a great DoT, as you point out.
What are the Pistoleer's advantages? You identify two, but you're wrong on both. First, you say that atacking bleeds are the Pistoleer's advantage. First, I'd like to point out that for 6 skill points the BH can get Novice Pistoleer so he'll have HealthShot2 as well -- and he can then stack THREE bleeds instead of two. Even without that, the BH also has two bleeds -- Torso and HealthShot1, and Torso is _way_ better than HealthShot2 because it is stronger and cannot be healed via /firstaid.
Second, you suggest that the Pistoleer has an advantage at very close range. In PvP the pistoleer melee specials are totally worthless unless you're duelling an idiot who starts the duel within 7m of you. With server lag, you never can land those specials in PvP. Even if you ARE just standing within 7m of each other, the BH will always win because he can just one-shot you with an LLC. 
So no, the original poster was right. A Pistoleer is disadvantaged versus a BH in every situation.
I'm not saying that's wrong or a bad thing, so all the BH trolls please don't reply. I don't care if BH is powerful and I'm just interested in fixing Pistoleer, thanks.
Well, don't get me wrong, Pistoleer in BH is way stronger, I was just throwing out anything that can be used as a tactic and anything I've ever considered in game. Yep, I do stack 3 bleeds, in fact my DOT button is: /eyeshot;/torsoshot;/healthshot2;/healtshot1;/bleedingshot. Yep, 1 state effect and severe DOT.
The only other thing I can think of is the Master Gunfighter's ability to fire while on the run is a lot better than a BH's.
Unfortunately, though, I won't be Master Gunfighter much longer. I've found hunting - whether marks or animals - and PvP hold my interests in this game. Originally tried to be Master Ranger / Gunfighter but the combo sucked and nothing beyond Master Scout is worth the effort / skill points.
-- YP
Against PvP groups, of course, fan shot since it does area damage. I'm always running around trying to get the best angle to hit the most targets.
Against solo opponents, if the target has some healing, I do end up using more fan or stopping, rather than bodyshots, in an attempt to hit their mind pool. I'll switch to bodyshot if I notice their health pool is getting low. At that point, I'll also try to move into whip range to knockdown in hopes of killing them before they can heal. Against someone with no healing, bodyshot is definitely better.
Note that this is what I do right now with this crazy additional 75% damage reduction. Once this is fixed, against single targets, I do far more bodyshot3's than I do fanshots. If my opponent is just standing there eating the damage while stopping for a few seconds to heal, I can usually do as much damage as they just healed, so it's a losing battle for them. I dueled a BH friend a number of times and he soon realized that the only way healing was helping him was if he ran away, and used a building to avoid getting hit so he can get some time to heal. Of course, this is all still dependant on whether your opponent is wearing armor, PSG, buffs, etc.
Crillan wrote:
What about double tap? I just recently got this shot and I'm regularly doing over 1k damage. I don't have stopping shot or fan shot yet to compare myself but it seems double tap is pretty good too. Comparing to my last ditch shot from smuggler it was doing comparable damage.
Double Tap is a decent random HAM shot -- although you'll do better with KipUpShot from Marksman. Don't just look at the damage -- it's the damage per second that matters.
Keep in mind, though, that you're hitting random HAM pools. That means 55% of your shots are hitting health, 30% are hitting action, and 15% are hitting mind. It's rarely a good idea to target health with 55% of your shots instead of 100%, so you're almost always better off using BodyShot2/3 unless you (1) are fighting an enemy with very low health or mind or (2) are in a group and are trying to maximize XP without regard to how fast you're killing the creature.
Zerona wrote:
Johnb,
I would suggest that therenothing purely skill or statwise that a Master Pistoleer could bring to bear on a Expert Bounty Hunter. Their targeted HAM attack is unhealable and hits harder than all of our healable target HAM attaks. They have more speed than we do, as well as access to better pistols.
It would pretty much boil down to the Pistoleer being a much better player than the bounty hunter (which could certainly be the case). An even match goes to the BH.
I think I'm qualified to make a few comments in the BH pistol / Pistoleer department
Torso shot does slightly more health damage than BS3 - but it is also DOT and wound effect. Right now DOT damage hasn't been modified so the damage a target gets is severe. Also against a novice PvP'er state changes like "You are on fire!" and "The fire on you intensifies!" puts people into a panic. Eyeshot is not the king it was before, the damage multiplier isn't as good as that of BS3 or Torso shot. The best I've hit with eyeshot post-patch is 43 with my 109 - 235 scatter w/ max damage upgrade against unarmored target. However, the blind effect still stays and blind is a critical advantage.
Also to augment eyeshot BH's have bleeding shot, which bleeds the mind pool. Since people only spam eyeshot this seems to be a forgotten shot almost.
The area where pistoleers can do better than BH pistols is in melee range and also the ability to stack hs1 and hs2. I haven't confirmed this but those two shots seem to be doing serious PvP damage still. I know I got someone for 160 today with hs2 but have been fighting guildwar and haven't had time to really look.In PvE yesterday I shot a mark with these and got the most unbelievable hits ever - 389 for hs1 and 579 for hs2. Every 20 and 21 seconds the guy was dropping almost 1000 hp.
Apparently if you knock someone down they take 2.5 damage? Is that true? Anyway, if I'm melee I still knock the person down and have 2 seconds to spam 2 pba2s. This seems to be a good combo.
Fanshot is still darn good. Since it can hit the action pool - which is usually low in PvP, you nail them with Fanshot and they incap darn good.
Ok, so flame me for having BH line and tooting the horn of anything in Pistoleer, I'm not downplaying BH line - it's awesome, but my only attack key is not eyeshot. PvP you must keep your options open. My attack buttons are Fanshot, PMD1, PBA2, Stopping Shot, BS3, Torso Shot, Eyeshot, warning shot, suppression fire, and my DOTs.
Also, I believe our defenses have been fixed a bit since I've been hit with Dizzy and KD carbine shots today and they didn't stick. Every other time I've been hit they stick, so maybe something was fixed?
BH Master is total offense - they have zero resists to posture change, kd, or dizzy. They also get zero melee defense, just +7 ranged. However, they are SERIOUS offense. It'll be good when eyeshot goes to master since very few of the pwners who use it will have the patience to get through Investigation.
-- YP
PvP damage is going to be fixed in tommorow's hot fix.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Announcements&message.id=144#M144
Haven't heard if there has been any change to Eye Shot's damage multiplier, so we might be back to business tommorow. Where's my helmet....