Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Bounty vs Pistoleer and skills applied.
Grexor wrote
Consider this.
What if the developers had made BH a Elite profession that someone could quality for when making the rank of Master Pistoleer or Carbineer or Commando? The could have given each specialized type of BH access to just the specials in line with their current mastery. Granted the other specials are not in line with eyeshot but.. they could have for instance:
At Master BH (Pistol Specialization) - Eyeshot
At Master BH (Carbine Specialization) - Enhanced Fire Knockdown (1 Min. Knockdown timer).
At Master BH (Commando Specialization) - Enhanced LLC (increased Accuracy maybe?)
Abilities granted along the way could focus more on stealth, Player traps, and any number of other options.
Under such a system there would have been no confusion for anyone regarding the relative power of a novice to master BH. It's too bad really, would have prevented a lot of infighting.
I could Definately see how that makes sense. Where BH may be a Combination of Several Trees to form the Elite Profession would seem to make more sense and I tend to agree with you that that would have made more sense to do in the fasion you describe.
Maybe LLC would be better to have it as some form of Rifle as apposed to Taking away from the Commando. Also instead of having scout profession being the lower foot of the tree have also a Master Hunter tree that would have involved maybe a different form of tracking then Ranger and also combine the investigation line and maybe a spin off in use of the droid line. Then have Master BH require all 4 trees in one of Carbineer, Pisotleer and Rifleman, plus the completetion of the marskman tree of choice and the Hunting Master. Just a thought.
That is a good idea. I definately agree that the BH should have gone up one of the 3 combat trees first beforebecoming a BH(like Grexor said) or the BH have their own independent Combat trees reqired instead of using the Marksman Trees(Like Taewyn suggested.). Maybe have the trees like this, BH Weapon Tactics,Carbineer, Pistoleer, Rifleman
Taewyn, I really like your Ideas as well on gadets and stuff those are great Ideas. Too bad the Dev's probably won't look at this post. I just really think there needs to be a Distinctive Difference between the classes
I just we could do something that would better all the Combat Professions to stop all the infighting.
Thank you for posting this topic. You could also look at the amount of pistol experience each requires and compare the two. No matter how you slice it. Pistoleers/Fencers should be the undisputed masters of taking out someone's red bar. Carbineers/Pikemen, Riflemen/Swordsmen, should have the same for their specific HAM shots as well.
Alot of Bounty hunters feel that the pay off for all of their skill points should equal them as the total victor in any given 1 on 1 combat hands down. Well in a way, that is already in place. However I can't help but feel that some of this stems from Boba Fett envy. Yes, Boba is a bad dude. While a highly skilled combatant. He was mainly feared and hated for his unparalleled skills in tracking his targets. Not to mention his emotionless execution of said jobs. It's personality, tactics, and a drive to win that made Boba so feared. Alot of these tools are already avaible to players should they find a away to harness their inner "Fett". However the bounty hunter profession in and of it's self doesn't equal the most feared combatant in the galaxies. Just because your a bounty hunter doesn't mean you should win every encounter due to a title.
Not every bounty hunter was a Boba Fett. Some sucked. It takes tactics, and an ability to adapt to any situation that makes a person a badass fighter. That goes for all combat period. As I said earlier. Some of this is already in place for the bounty hunter. They require the specilizations of rifles, carbines, and pistols. With a few tricks up their sleeves like lightening rifle certs, and some more specialized Carbine/pistol tactics.
However they aren't masters of all combat just because of this, and they aren't supposed to be masters of pistols/carbines.
Leave the pistol master to us.
Ok since when is pistoleer not a combat class? It's not capable of healing wounds or damage. So it's not a medic. You can't forage, run faster, or build camps. So it isn't a scout. It doesn't help you dance and with the way that specials work right now pistoleer sure isn't an entertainer!
So what exactly would a specialized weapon class from the marksman profession be if it isn't a combat class? Also no one here has said that pistoleers need to be the best in pvp. Pistoleers just want to be the best with pistols. Period. That doesn't mean all pistoleers expect to be the most uber leet profession. They just want what most people want for mastering a profession... A good reason to do so. Your suggestions for bounty hunter and smuggler as competitive PvP pistol classes is comical at best.
just for fun,
"My point being is that you cannot use the total skill point usage in a weapons category and say you are the best."
And why can't we for that matter. Bounty hunters love to go on about thier 217 skill point expendature all the time!
BH should ahve the advantage in 2 out of 3 combat scenarios. (just talking about the normal ranged weapons, not inlcuding commandos or brawlers) When they're fighting a pistoleer in a situation where carbine or rifle is the best weapon, they have the advantage... When they're fighting a rifleman when carbine or pistol is the best weapon, they have the advantage etc..
When fighgting a carbine specialist when carbine is the best weapon for the situation, the carbine specialist should have the advantage. Same goes with fighting a pistoleer in a situation best suited for pistols.
This just seems to simple to me. sheesh. so BH is the best overall combatant but each of the other 3 specialty classes is the best in certain situations. Why is this so hard to realize? BH's say that they have to spend more well SO WHAT? you GET more and can do more with your skills.
A simple, common sense analogy:
Bob spends $50,000 and buys a car.
George Spends $75,000 and buys a car, a boat, and an RV.
So of course, George should have the better car because he spent 75,000 and Bob only spent 50,000? This is pretty much what BH's are arguing.
Bob ONLY got the car with his 50k so he should have the best car. that's his advantage. George shouldn't have as nice of a car but he's got the perk of having a boat and an RV too.
DUH.
the BH investigative tree, and scouting skills should simple allow him to find people and things easily, however taking out his target shouldn't always be easy, a CH pistoler or TKA defenses and Pistoler, some one whos put more points into their char, will stand a good chance against a BH, a BH is only half combatical, and thats the way it should be sense traps are the only form of comabt in scouting, and they are non NPC or PVP....
A commando should wipe the floor with a BH.... Commandos can't track people down though, but they should be the best fighting machine (if you read my comments on commandos I think they should need more skill points on their actaul tree sense no pre-req could be added, of course tthey will be stronger) but just the same a pistoler CH or part TKA or combat medic would stand just as good of a job to commando and BH, its all about how you take the person on, of course a mpistoler with no other skills will die real fast like.... the whole point of pistoler carbineer and rifleman is to make them good but not elite profession good, they got all those left over skills so they can become as good or develop selling or crafting instead of being strictly combative like BH and commandos some what are and should be.....
GoodToTheTouch (gross name btw):
Your entire post is one huge rant against BH's and how they should be beaten by just about everyone. Then you say this gem:
"the whole point of pistoleer...is to make them good but not elite profession good..."
Bounty Hunter is a hybrid/elite profession depending on the Dev you ask, so...what the heck are you talking about? This whole board is filled with "why are the BH's so much more powerful than we are?!" nonsense and provides hours of entertainment. You don't see the BH board with any sort of "nerf Pistoleer" comments, even though some of your attacks/abilities could be questioned. Worry about your own profession, make it better, and stop complaining and trying to be something you aren't. You do the entire Investigation line and see who has it worse. And yes, I am also a Novice Pistoleer, so this isn't trolling.
Oh, I especially liked your word "combatical".
Step 1: Developer changes description line in database for Scatter Pistol to Scatter Gun.
Step 2: Pistoleers can then feel warm and fuzzy, since the weapon in question is no longer a quote un quote "Pistol", wahoo, your the master of all pistols! Awesome.
A pistol by definition shoots one shot at a time. Even a fully automatic pistol shoots successive single shots.
A scatter gun shoots multiple bolts at once. It is more akin to a gatlin or machine gun for the hand.
Before you say, well a pistol is held in the hand! So is a DH17 carbine, null point.
REposting this in the thread I originally posted it in... somehow it warped to another thread...
The end result is they Fekd up the whole BH profession pretty bad. The current state of the profession just sucks from every angle.
-It's ability to pair with carbineer/pistoleer speed throws the whole dps curve out of whack,
-you can't really bounty hunt ... (**edit** it's the BH class).
-The skills are just jacked for what you end up with. Why the heck you need master scout for the class as it stands is beyond anyone except as a point sink. WANT A LOGICAL POINT SINK? Blow away the current pre-reqs and change the pre-reqs to master carbineer/master pistoleer. At least their dominance with the 2 weapons would make sense then.
The whole purpose of this class was to have player bounties. When they got rid of player bounties they should have simply removed the bounty hunter class. Point sink of this size makes sense, and it could be balanced appropriately since "power" would not be it's compensation, but bounty hunting would.
Grexor wrote:
Simplest solution to all this hooplah.
Step 1: Developer changes description line in database for Scatter Pistol to Scatter Gun.
Step 2: Pistoleers can then feel warm and fuzzy, since the weapon in question is no longer a quote un quote "Pistol", wahoo, your the master of all pistols!
I don't think so. Semantics is not what we're arguing about here. We're arguing about who is the best in up close, ranged energy weapons. Call it whatever you want: Call it scatter bazooka- it makes no difference to me. Its utility and function will remain unchanged.
Awesome.
A pistol by definition shoots one shot at a time. Even a fully automatic pistol shoots successive single shots.
A scatter gun shoots multiple bolts at once. It is more akin to a gatlin or machine gun for the hand.
Before you say, well a pistol is held in the hand! So is a DH17 carbine, null point.
I dissagree again. All hand held machine guns fire one bullet at a time. The only question is how rapidly they fire shots. Even gatling guns fire one bullet at a time. only the top barrel is fired as it rotates infront of the firing mechanism. If all the barrels were fired at once (which is impossible because there's only a bullet feed to the top barrel) it would knock the guy over. Despite the way they show it in movies, machine guns produce mass amounts of kick and recoil.
A scatter gun is a fictional, sci-fi multi-barreled pistol. Even if you sucessfully compared it to real life weapons, it would mean nothing as this is not a game based on reality: it's based on star wars.
Why is it so hard to accept the fact that one who focuses all their attention into one weapon type should be the best at that type? It's just common sense. 1/2 of a BH's requirements have little or nothing to do with weapons. Exploration, hunting (which in SWG context means skinning...the skill should be called tanning or animal
husbandry), making tents.... Furthermore, only 3 of the 4 BH skill trees are directly combat oriented. 1 tree is tracking and investigating. So a master carbine specialist has 4 elite prof trees deticated to combat with ONE weapon where a master BH has 3 ellite trees dedicated to a total of 3 different weapon types.
So I ask you: why should someone who has 4 elite combat profession skill trees dedicated to a single weapon type, be inferior to someone who has 1 skill tree of that weapon type? The only place I would agree with the BH's is that a NOVICE BH should be better than a novice pistoleer or carbine because they have the bonuses for master marksman and ranged weapon support. But by the time they reach master, the story changes.
I kill pistoleers more often than they kill me;
I start off with a Carbine and Fire Knockdown and Confusion shot them, I switch to pistol eyeshot than torso shot. To finish you off I switch to LLC and finish the job. 9 out of 10 times I can kill you w/o you being able to get up off the ground, that 1 time you do get up from my knockdown and dizzy shots im close enough by now that I switch back to pistol and whip you in the head knocking you down again
.So your correct that pistoleers are the "master" of the pistol. If im up against a pistoleer and I try to take him out with just pistol than I usually die. Its our versatility and ability to target each pool that make us a deadly opponant.