Pistoleer Archive

They need to pay your Jaegen! Devs BETTER listen to you because YOU know what you are saying and what WE want changed/fixed. You are by far the best correspondent, and the time/effort you put in should be rewarded by SONY. Should... never will but it should Hopefully Devs listen to you because you speak for EVERYONE. Devs better appreciate what you do.

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Xetal wrote:
Personally I see disarmshot2 as a lost battle man, WHEN it is changed I would like it to be changed to something useful to reflect the mastery level of pistoleer... and I think that if the devs are going to change it into something worthwhile we should start putting ideas into their heads now about things that wouldn't be overpowered... things that are realistic... and things that would HELP a pistoleer be the master of the pistol.

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Sounds good....maybe have it add two status effects at disram2, like stun and intimidate to the target, have a high wound chance to the action and/or constitution pools,and still do some damage to the target instead of the actual weapon (yes, I'm of the oppinion that to damage the weapon is nothing more than a grief tactic - weapons degrade fast enough already, don't need outside help heheh). Have disarm1 add one of the previous status effects and have a lesser chance to damage the action pool or some such.

Spekao

1234Taz ,

Maybe stopping shot is "bugged" too since it doesn't often incapacitate in one hit? I think I'll add that in the next issues post..good thinking.

The reason he does not say it's bugged is because he has a full appreciation of the nature of SOE's responses to that one word. SOE is currently in the "put out the fire" mode of fixing things. When things settle down (months from now) they will be able to look at these skill lines, and abilitys with some measure of objectivity and also have the time to fully test and balance things.

What SOE is apt to do is simply nerf your ass back to the stone age, and then months later, long after most of the pistoleer population has abandoned their professionfor somthing that works, look into it again.

Currently the AOE knockdown is the one consistent master level ability that works, and actually makes a difference in an encounter. In other words it is an appropriate reward for gaining mastery of pistol. It makes the grind worth it.

By simply saying its bugged, results not in careful balance, but mass elimination. Those that say, "well its overpowered and needs to be nerfed are thinking about it wrongly.

Don't Nerf the things that work! Fix the professions that dont! In other words beef them up rather than tear one profession down. Since tearing one profession down is much easier, that is what SOE is likely to do. So our esteemed correspondant is doing exactly the right thing. He is offering some alternatives that will keep our one good Master Level ability intact.

Lets just hope it works.

Fastgun

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YetiIronfist wrote:
1234Taz:

To quote from the beginning of Jaegen's report:

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Details:

1. Disarming Shot 1 and Disarming Shot 2 issues
In response to changing the effects of disarming shot 1 and disarming shot 2.
Both specials are currently unique and fairly effective for pistoleers.
Disarming Shot 2 is an AOE knockdown, which goes well with Multi Target Pistol Shot, and is a master level skill
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It clearly states exactly what Disarming Shot 2 does, in a section that talks about how there was previous talk of changing the special, that we didn't like the idea of changing it to be a grief shot, with the suggestion that the special be left the way it is and the name just made more appropriate.

Nothing was hidden, and if the Devs determine that the effect is bugged, inappropriate, misplaced, or whatever, I'm sure they'll change it, just as they've been changing and nerfing other things.

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Indeed is does but he doesn't say no where that it is bugged and isn't working right. As a Correspondent he should be pointing out these things out. He should say clearly that /disarshot2 is currently bugged and is a ranged AOE knockdown and ask if this is working as intented which I know for a fact it isn't because its using the carbine skill Charge shot 2 and if you go on the carbine forums and ask you'll see this is not working. So it would seem in some sort of mix up that they added charge shot2 effect to disarmshot2 instead of chargeshot2 which wasn't working before the patch either.

Maybe /disarmshot 1 and 2 should be like that smuggler move panic shot , by disarming the target and giving them an attack speed delay , disarmshot one can be single target and disarmshot2 can be AOE , but only does damage to the target select but gives an attack speed delay to people in the AOE, none griefing none overpowered and it falls in line with the name of the moves.

Now for shotingshot not working right well , he also hasn't pointed this out with the 75% damage reduction to PvP stopingshot is not working as intendented, maybe he should have made a thread about it and asked what the pistoleer community what they would like for stopingshot and reportedit.

Seems good Jaegen.

I don't like your suggestion that the descriptions of Disarm1 and 2 be rewritten to match their current behavior. That is because their current behavior is dumb. You know it, I know it, SOE might even know it (naw.). 'double damage vs. lairs' is just obscurely dumb, and 'ranged AOE knockdown' is obscenely uber.

I think a better suggestion would be that Disarm1 somehow remove the weapon from play temporarily (NOT DESTROYING IT!), from both players and npc's. Disarm2 would... I'm not sure really. Disarm and do more damag? Disarm and inflict equivalent of warcry and intimidate? Disarm multiple targets perhaps? it would have to cause very little damage to multiple targets considering multi target shot is just above it.

But giving them the option to just change the descrption isn't a solution, because we'll just be bugging it again when they do.

Also, you forgot to mention that we're underpowered compared to Droid Engineers and Chef/Tailor hybrids. in fact one time my character was lying down, asleep, and facing the wrong way, and a chef gave me some spoiled meat, and after two days I had lost 20% of my HAM, and thats' just not right. The devs should fix this obvious inbalance.

"I think a better suggestion would be that Disarm1 somehow remove the weapon from play temporarily (NOT DESTROYING IT!), from both players and npc's."

Hrmm, interesting idea. I personally think it should cause a player's weapon to come unequipped...not actually remove(you didn't state a timeframe)it from play. That would do 3 things: 1) cause the weapon to become unequipped(duh); 2) cause the opponents attack pad to clear(obviously due to the unequipped weapon); and 3) leave the opponent no choice but to re-equip the weapon(duh again). Anyway, I like this idea

We need to add that the DX2 has an optimal range of 0 or point blank. That would seem incorrect for a ranged weapon.

We also need to point out that the Republic Blaster, which we can assume (although we could be wrong) will be one of the new Pistoleer certs they are talking about adding, has bugged ranges.

I don't remember exactly, but I was looking at one last night, and they look a lot like the Commando weapons that are messed up.

PB: 0 (0 meters)
Ideal: -8 (0 meters)
Max: 0 (64 meters)

The numbers might be slightly off, but it showed an ideal range of zero, NO accuracy penalties at point blank and maximum range, it had its worst accuracy at the supposed Ideal range of zero, and it also had the contradictory listing of 0m having both a zero accuracy modifier as the point blank value and also having a negative accuracy modifier as the ideal range.

5. Knockdowns still not functioning properly
A. Increased HAM cost is not a deterrent, when the EFFECT of knockdown removes your opponent's ability to both move and take action. It seems to be only rarely resisted so why not spam it?

As a TKA who pays 700 HAM to use knockdown (I do not think we should have to remove our only weapon as long as we're given one to use, but the unarmed costs is 200) I can say that, yes, increased HAM cost is a deterrent. Our mind pool will still run out if we're being healed, same as you, but it goes at around 200 mind per KD. You are correct that Knockdown is rarely resisted, TKAs have had defenses on our top problems list since they started the correspondents. A TKA with only one skill box in balance can knock down a Master every time. I don't understand the logic behind TKAs having an entire skill tree devoted to "Balance Conditioning" yet we still have only +20 versus knockdown at master whereas the Pistoleer gains +30 total at master, but hey, do the Devs ever make sense? They're increasing the action and mind costs for our knucklers, and Raph said that no, Knockdown HAM is not changing...I'd beware if I was you, you might be next.

I applied ONE knockdown to my opponent. Opponent immediately stood up and tried to self heal. It took about 15 seconds total before he could heal (includes prone time..rough testing).
I applied SIX knockdowns to my opponent. Opponent immediately stood up and tried to self heal.
It took 94 seconds before he could self heal (OR ATTACK).
I applied 10 knockdowns to my opponent. It took 151 seconds before my opponent could self heal, initiate attack, etc....I'd say Knockdown is bugged.

It's not just healing of course, he could take NO ACTION during that time except run around.

This was tested using pistol melee defense 1 and disarming shot 2. I cannot say if ALL knockdowns work this way.
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SUGGESTION:

I suspect knockdown adds some sort of "Delay to Next Action". Possibly around 10 seconds in duration PER KNOCKDOWN.
Each subsequent knockdown seems to be ADDING to the Delay Next Action Counter, rather than RESETTING it to the guess of 10 seconds, for instance.
It seems intuitive that after the last time your are knocked down, you should have a straight delay to action, not some additive delay.
This is going to hurt the current PvE XP for anyone using KD, which is harsh. With the new changes to KD on the test center, too many changes too fast reducing KD effectiveness should be examined with this taken into account.

This is not the same for TKAs knockdown. They do not stack when applied consecutively and they cannot be applied without a slight delay between them in which we cannot act at all.

Jaegen,

I think this is pretty much dead on.

I also wanted to add that I think that you rule as the Pistoleer Correspondent. The ammount of tme and effort you put into this is impressive. Because of your posts, I really think that Pistoleers have the best information available to them and are more knowledgeable about their profession as a result.

Please keep up the good work.

Chozan Won

Tatooine, Ahazi.

You wrote:

I tested this a while back in a duel vs a novice marksman
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I applied ONE knockdown to my opponent. Opponent immediately stood up and tried to self heal. It took about 15 seconds total before he could heal (includes prone time..rough testing).
I applied SIX knockdowns to my opponent. Opponent immediately stood up and tried to self heal.
It took 94 seconds before he could self heal (OR ATTACK).
I applied 10 knockdowns to my opponent. It took 151 seconds before my opponent could self heal, initiate attack, etc....I'd say Knockdown is bugged.

It's not just healing of course, he could take NO ACTION during that time except run around.

This was tested using pistol melee defense 1 and disarming shot 2. I cannot say if ALL knockdowns work this way.
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SUGGESTION:

I suspect knockdown adds some sort of "Delay to Next Action". Possibly around 10 seconds in duration PER KNOCKDOWN.
Each subsequent knockdown seems to be ADDING to the Delay Next Action Counter, rather than RESETTING it to the guess of 10 seconds, for instance.
It seems intuitive that after the last time your are knocked down, you should have a straight delay to action, not some additive delay.
This is going to hurt the current PvE XP for anyone using KD, which is harsh. With the new changes to KD on the test center, too many changes too fast reducing KD effectiveness should be examined with this taken into account.

This is correct in pvp, not pve. In pvp this happens.....in pve this does not happen.

Knock down a baz nitch 5 times and then see how long it takes him to hit you back...about 3-4 seconds from last knockdown.

Dashai

Yes in pvp this is a terrible thing to have happen to you, you are powerless, can't heal, can't fire...nothing!

Have to disagree about not wanting a special to do damage against weapons. In one on one combat you would never use it, but in a group I could see where it would be very useful. Also, I am a parttime artisan and think another way to increase demand for products is a good idea.

Say you are going up against a master commando with a launcher pistol. As you state over and over again, our only ham specific attack is against health. If the commando has a medic behind him, you will probably never take him down. If you can wipe out his launcher pistol, you might have a shot at him.

You can kill peoples droids, kill faction pets, why should weapons and armor be exempt from being targetable?