Pistoleer Archive

Sort of off topic, but let me describe how I think the Ideal Battle with the Ideal Balance should look (and yeah, this is PvP focused):

The melee are responsible for taking down the riflemen, or harassing them so they can't lay down AE fire.

Carbineers are like halfbacks in soccer. They provide offensive assistance to the melee with their status effects and posture changes, making the melee catch their targets easier and do more damage to them (while taking less damage themselves). They also provide defensive assistance by status-effect on the opposing melee.

Pistoleers are the goalkeepers. They're uniquely qualified to take down melee: they do the most damage up close, and being not-melee, the melee toughness bonuses that all melee receive don't affect them. They have PBAE for melee clusters, or they just shoot down anyone that gets too close to the main body, especially the riflemen and carbineers.

Riflemen provide AE damage, and are responsible for taking down any clumps of opponents.

Bounty Hunters are responsible for the ones that break from the pack, or those that are effectively soloing, and choosing the correct strategy depending on what class the opponent is. They specialize in one-on-one take downs.

Commandos provide support to whichever piece is lacking in the group. If there aren't enough riflemen, they break out their AE heavy weapon (with lower net DPS than a real rifleman). If there aren't enough pistoleers, they break out their flamethrowers and go on anti-melee duty (but again, not as effective as a pistoleer). They can provide AE status support using their grenades (but not as flexible as a carbineer). They also provide the heavy firepower for turrets and vehicles.

I'm sure there are ways to fit other combat classes into appropriate niches. I realize SWG isn't supposed to be class based, but it can certainly be *role* based. A commando/carbineer might be excellent AE status support, with their grenades and carbineer skills. A pistoleer/riflemen might help with AE damage, but break out the pistol and go melee hunting once the melee close in.

Yeah, this is somewhat idealized, mainly due to range issues (64 metersisn't much time to make decisions). But it's the way I see how combat should be, and how it could be balanced without making everyone effectively the same.

And I did short-change melee a little; as a rifleman, melee all fit into the category of 'things to run away from' and I can't say I have a good understanding of all their issues. Each melee probably has their own niche within their overall niche of being shock-troops.

you post this as if pistoleers are the only ones that hit random pools. instead of this post, why not ask for bodyshot3 to be addressed? no other elite combat proff has more targeted shots, they just work better.

heh

- Carbineer can LEGSHOT snakes...yes they can
- BH can EYESHOT while behind...yes they can
- Pistoleers can BODysh...well, at least, we are the last one opponents try to kill, not that bad.

Noules000 ,

Didn't test targeted shots, have you? Please confirm if they do in fact act like this. I generally take down 10K ham bars off one pool, and dont see the others drop, but that may just bea resolution issue.

Targeted shots are superior at taking one pool down, but it's weakness is PvP, where random HAM can prove to be the better choice depending on your opponent.

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Yes, imagine PvP where we did something other than spam the highest damage special. You're right, it's quite boring in that aspect, a pity. Imagine that.

I haven't tested this recently - I almost never use targetted shots as a master rifleman, and when I do it's almost always the kill shot. I thought I noticed it when I was levelling, though, although I could very well be mistaken. I'll check it today.

Anyway, I still think regardless of the spread or lack of one, targetted HAM attacks are currently out of line. Being able to hit a low pool is already a pretty big advantage, and I don't see why they all need a damage bonus to boot. Most battles should rely on random HAM attacks, and only when they get low enough in a pool to make it worth focusing on should targetted attacks be superior to random pool attacks. It just doesn't seem to make sense to have BS/AS/HS1 be better DPS than autofire when it already has a huge advantage in that it can focus on a weak pool. I can see the elite versions having a better DPS (they're much harder to get) but even then, they should be considerably lower raw DPS than the better random HAM specials.

I also suggested some different ways to make the specials more interesting, besides DPS and effects proposed in your report. The idea is to make all the specials have their place, even for the master pistoleer, yet allow each newly obtained special to provide something that the old specials did not:
- Roll/Dive/Kip shot: Add 'tumbling' effect, so special cannot be spammed. This makes it a good one-shot move which adds defense, but not something with better DPS than the pistoleer specials.
- Make Double Tap a high-accuracy, low DPS bonus shot. This is useful at long range, especially when moving, and in particular at lower levels of Pistoleer when you have less accuracy bonuses anyway.
- Make Stopping Shot a high DPS bonus, low-accuracy, close-range shot. It should be the obvious choice when up close to a target with little chance of missing, but be range-limited (like other PB moves)
- Make Fan Shot the 'any-time' move, with moderately high DPS and moderately good accuracy. It would be what you default to except under the special situations where DT or SS is more useful (and it's why you would get it last).
- Pistol Smash should probably add dizzy (but not necessarily KD) and thus allow 'chains' with Pistol Whip.
- Multitarget should be a straight cone attack with moderate damage.
- Disarming1/2 should be single target and cone delay attacks, much like Panic Shot (already proposed in the report).