Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Okay guys, here's our chance ... let's not blow it
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=pistoleer&message.id=13952
I'd like to see our specials target specific HAM lines instead of being random shots. (Blasters are NOT random, whatever Obi-Wan said. In comparison to the mighty saber, satellite guided missiles would seem random to a Jedi. If that's the reasoning behind random HAM effects, it needs to go out the window now.) The speed issue seems like it would be a good thing to fix too. But if a dev is looking at this thread, I really would suggest he look at Jaegen's posts concerning how our profession can be fixed.
Ok boys and girls, here's a few numbers iv'e made upon several tests with a friend of mine ,you judge by yourself 
PS (This was made with My Dx2 149-266 , 2.3 speed) Iv'e shot 3X with different specials to test em out, here are the results:
Fan shot - 264/321/304 = total of 889 damage on 3 hits
Stopping shot- 425/345/279= total of 1049 damage on 3 hits
Disarming shot2 (Master level)- 269-209-224= total of 702 damage on 3 hits
Multi target person shoot (Master level)- 39-64-79= total of 182 damage on 3 hits
Double tap - 230/260/275 = total of 765 damage on 3 hits
Kick-up shot - 150/163/143= total of 456 damage on 3 hits
Point blank area 2 - 244/221/212= total of 677 damage on 3 hits
Body shot 2-192/179/188 = total of 559 damage on 3 hits
Body shot 3- 231/221/189 = total of 641 damage on 3 hits
Now those stats talk by themselves. If we analyze this we can already from start see some problems. Obviously a Stopping shot is more powerfull than a fan shot if we compare skill levels in which each are obtained. Stopping shot was a tid bit slower than fan shot but still did 160 damage additional over 3 hits. Now the biggest problem that really bothers me here is double tap. Double tap is a level 2 skill, if we compare the damage made over 3 shots which is 765 damage for a double tap versus 889 for a fan shot level 4 we get a 124 damage difference and that on 3 shots which makes 41 damage per shot bonus for a level 4 skill. Either Double tap is too powerfull (which i dont personally think at this point) either fan shot is seriously under-rated.
The second concern that really bothered me upon the tests was the master pistoleer skills. If we look at the disarming shot 2 total damage (702 on 3 hits) compared to a double tap level 2which made 789 damage on 3 hits, we're wondering now what's up with this. I can clearly see that there is indeed a problem in the binary calculation of the pistoleer branch. A double tap level 2 presently beats a Disarming shot 2 (master pistoleer) as i can see in our current situation.
My third concern was based upon multi-target person shoot. On 3 hits , Multi-target person gave me a result of 182 damage total , that means that ifi had3 targets in front of me, id target em all 3 for 182 damage on 3 hits. Now let me get this straight... How can a master pistoleer can even survive against PVP or PVE doing 182 damage on 3 targets that would obviously be aggroed on you. Of course, we could kill 3 kreetles in 1 hit with a multi-target shot. But on a larger scale in PVP this skill is totally useless and would make any master pistoleers lose badly against 3 opponents in PVP or even 3 creatures with 2k ham+. For a Master pistoleer skill , the multi-target person shoot is as good as a body shot 1 on several different targets as it is now.
Point blank 2 here goes for a big 677 damage on 3 hits, again double tap which is a level 2 skill yet over-rides it......
Body shot 3 did a little bit more damage than body 2 upon testing ,tho the difference is really a tid bit for a level 2 vs 3 (but we already know about this issue)
We've talked about Fan shot, Disarming shot2 and Multi-target shot, lots of talks about putting fan shot as an AOE ranged attack. The biggest problem IMO at the moment is if we are going into the Fan shot AOE direction, Disarming 2 and Multi target shot will have definitly no meaning since they will be all very similar.
I think we need to find the root problems here , and basicly the problems are directly linked to the numbers vs the skill level. Some lower level skills does more damage than higher level ones/master skill
If any of you made also some testing , please let me know i'd love to compare and check out the stats based on different kind of pistols.
Thanks for taking the time to run these tests. The problem is that unless you have +100 speed, the delay on these specials matter. Soall of this data is off because you need to measure damage per SECOND, not damage per HIT. If it takes you twice as long to fire, then the damage output is reduced.
There is tons of data already testing these attacks. Check out some of the sticky posts for that.
To me, disarming shot should do just that, disarm the opponent. This could be accomplished by a simple delay until the next time they were allowed to attack. Yes I believe this should do damage also, afterall the shot could hit the player, but this should not be the focus, IMO. It should prevent the other player from attacking for say 3-5 seconds? I dunno, maybe shorter or longer. It seems logical thatDS2 would increase this time delayand decrease the chances for a miss.
I also like the idea of a dance SA. Causing the other player to be unable to attack while dancing. I would love to use that on some of the opponents I've come up against.
And I also loathe the idea of having to pick up BH just to supplement my combat. If this is a requirement, then I'm simply going to pass.
Also, the DX/2 should be the best pistol for us to have. When the resource shift made DX2s available on Shadowfire, I was soo pumped. Never having used the FWG5, only a scout, I thought I had arrived. After 2 weeks with the DX2 I thought I would just try and FWG5 and I was immediatelystunned....to say the least. It was sooo much more powerful than the DX2 I couldn't belive the damage numbers I was seeing. To me, this means the DX2 is seriously broken. As a noob to this particular forum, I'm not sure how many ppl have addressed this issue. I apologize if I'm beating a dead horse. I just feel sooooo jipped/riped off/disappointed that asa novice pistoleer I don't have a weapon that is only for me. To me, it just seems logical that the average DX2 (not a special build, sliced or other) should be better than the top of the line build FWG5.
I mean the weapon I see most BH with is the scatter pistol or lightning rifle. But I see so many gunfighters carrying around the FWG5 that I wonder why its not the pistoleer pistol? Ahhh well, I do love this class and I'm glad that my skills are finally improving.
Final suggestions....pearl handled grip options and pistoleer only armored gunman fighting dusters. 
To add to my previous post.....maybe DS should also have a chance to break the opponents weapon or to dramatically increase the status of it...thereby causing greater wear and tear. Although, completely disabling the opponents weapon sure gets me all excited.
Thanks for taking the time to run these tests. The problem is that unless you have +100 speed, the delay on these specials matter. Soall of this data is off because you need to measure damage per SECOND, not damage per HIT. If it takes you twice as long to fire, then the damage output is reduced.
There is tons of data already testing these attacks. Check out some of the sticky posts for that.
I agree, but still even if we divided it, it actually gives somehow numbers related to hits. Even if it takes you X seconds to fire X hits , those are still numbers related to the # of hits.
There's still problems related to damage 'Overall' Vs skills Level.