Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Nerf the jeezus out of Pistoleer!
Iebo wrote:
Tomasi, your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired
I said that you should be better at pistols...
however, there are lots of ways to kill people
Bounty Hunters should (and probably will eventually) have traps to use on humanoids
Bounty Hunters have the LLC (which when working should be formidable)
the argument about FINDING people is complete BS because I am a sw developer and I have to drive work to do my job....However, I do NOT drive to work for a living, I develop software.
A bounty hunter KILLS/NEUTRALIZES for a living, using lots of tools (some of which are broken and/or not yet implemented)
Yes, you drive to work everyday, but did you spend 2 years and 72 credit hours learning how to drive? No. Yet you spend half your skill points in scouting.
So okay, lets look at the actual KILLING of another PC. Supposedly the other half of your skill points. Now pistoleer, rifleman, carbineer (or how ever the hell they are spelling it now), SPECIALIZE in their weapon making them DEADLY to PVE and PVP, and that makes them dangerous to bounty hunter. Bounty Hunter is a respected profession. They have to usethier wits to take out another profession that is equally as dangerous. They aren't the end all and be all of PvP. Why should they, because they are supposed to? No, sorry. Don't expect to waltz in a Cantina and lay waste to a Master Pistoleer because you dabbled inone tree inpistol, one tree in carbine, and one tree in LLC skills. Half your skill points was finding the mark. Your other half is trying to kill it now.
You have to out-think the player. Going toe-to-toe, shootout at highnoon, etc.,you're gonna lose.
The argument that 'bounty hunters hunt down things and kill things so they should be rulers of all and slayers of the strong and weak alike!'
That is just stupid. Bounty hunters are fighter/scout combos, they are NOT pure fighters. A master BH should get his lily arse beat down by a master marksmen/master pistoleer/master carby in a 1 on 1 fight. This is because these are PURE combat classes, they are all about one thing: Their weapon.
Bounty Hunters get tools avalalble that other classes don't (the versitility of three weapons to choose from,scouting skills for PvE). Personally I think their LLC line should be changed to human trapping specialization, but that's up to the DEV's, not me.
The thing you need to realise is that Bounty Hunters are NOT ultimate killer soldiers, and they are not, and should not be an end-all, be-all PvP trump card.
Chahu wrote:
Tomasi why dont you read the discription of the bounty hunter in the Holocron. While you are at it read pistoleer. BH by SOE's on description are meant to ELIMINATE their targets. Also, why dont you read the top box in our skill trees.
This isnt a real life bounty hunter who tracks and takes their target into custody. This is SOE's BH who is basically an assassin and yes an assassin should be **edit** good in combat.
I don't know about the rest of you but when my class description says I ELIMINATE targets I would expect my given skills to be used to ELIMINATE the target.
Chahu Melhar
Intrepid Bounty Hunter
Anyone can eliminate ANYONE and anything. It just takes smarts. I don't expect to be pwned by some 'assassin' coming up to me in broad daylight, announcing himself to the world,and going toe to toe. I'll win.
Heck, I expect a Chef to stab an unsuspecting BH or any class, and win. Why? Because he was smart. Does that make the chef an assassin? You bet. Was he good in combat? No, he used his brain.
I expect an 'assassin' to be patient, watch my routine, and as I'm walking out of the cantina for my daily killings (because I made over 2 bajillion points in pitsol XP), get that knockdown shot first andkill me. That's an assasin. Is it cowardly, no. If I have a hit on me, I should have been watching my back. Be that Chef with the knife.
I expect an assassin to use cover if he misses. Get the best from his knowledge of taking out marks. Too many BHs grind their way to the top, yet don't learn a **edit** thing in simple tactics. That's your bag of tricks. I've actually participated in some PvP now. Well, it sucks. But when I, a novice smuggler can kill master pistoleers by suprising my target and spamming KD, then I too have become a mad-azz kd spamming 'assassin'. Hell, I'll throw 3 asses in there and be an assassassin.
"Oh, I'm a BH, I should one-shot kill every single player on the server no matter what. SOE said so."
Yeah... uh-huh.
"Here is the problem Tomasi. We are designed to track andKILLour targets. SOE needs to give us the skills to do just that. Right now our only line that is really any good isthe pistol line. Our carbine line suffered from the HAM knockdown cost terribly. I am all for not spamming knockdown but when two out of the three moves on my carbine line are knockdowns something needs to change. Also we have a heavy weapon skill that is very broken atm. The LLC (light lightning canon) is a point blank range heavy weapon that takes around 4 seconds to fire but does less damage then a pistol per shot."
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You were designed to track and kill your target. Master pistoleer was desinged to just kill our target. As far as Pistoleer vs BH, I feel there should be a BALANCE. I don't understand why a BH says they should own pistoleers or ANY profession because SOE says so, or just because you are 'Bounty Hunters'. When it comes to combat, they each should hold their own standing toe to toe. Who will win in an even match? The guy who get the drop on the other.
Fine, you found me, that's where scout and investigation come in. Something a Master Pistoleer couldn't do. Now, you are facing a target that made his living in pure, un-adulterated killing. A walking talking death machine. Behind him is a pile of dead carcasses a mile high.That's what you're facing. Staring down a barrel of a gun.
So what do you do? Just because you spent more skill points towards a profession that spends almost half of it in tracking,to giveyou the rights to just walk up to this death machine and kill him?
On the flip side, I don't expect a Master Pistoleer to just walk up to a bounty hunter, take ten paces, turn around, fire, and expect to win either. It'll be 50/50. Who ever hits that F1 key with the KD special. That's the wrong way to got about it.
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"Also why do we invest in traps? I understand hunting but trapping is useless to our profession if they dont giveus man traps.
You see we spend 217 points to become a master BH.For those 217 points we get one good line (pistol line), two broken lines (Investigation with it's bugged missions and negative payout and LLC), and one line that was greatly reduced in power by the knockdown nerf. If we didnt have to spend so many points maybeBH wouldnt be so upset but if you want to become a master BH you can spend a total of 33 points on extra skills. Therefore they either need to lower our skill point cost to allow us to take more combat skills or redo our combat skills so we are tough enough to take our marks down."
Man-Traps would be interesting and add something unique to the BH line. It'll be interesting to see how they implement it.
As for the ONE line in pistol, you get speed. Here's a tip, you don't need more then one kind of ranged knockdown. How to I kill people? Kd, then Bodyshot2. Rinse and repeat. You do NOT spam your three kds in a row. I probably don't have any more action points than BHs just because I'm a pistoleer. It costs just as much. So how is one knockdown more powerful than the other? Why is the pistoleer knockdown more powerful? Does it cost less HAM?
Here's the other thing I do NOT understand. BHs are NOT weapon specialists. I'm not a BH, and yet, I see this. You get a line in pistol, one in carbine, and one in LLC. Yet a pistoleer has to spend something like 1billion points in a single weapon. Still, you have the greater pistol speed. So, you're saying, "but we specialize in eliminating targets", but HOW is that different than a master pistoleer? We do NOT eliminate our targets?
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"If you didnt know Tomasi, BHs are the only class that is required to solo red mob to earn exp towards our master track. To do so SOE has to give us the skills to have a chance to win those fights. As it stands now we dont have those required skills."
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Sorry, but that doesn't mean a darn thing.I solo red NPC as a Novice Smuggler. We get ONE line in pistol, and it offers NO pistol mods. Should this automatically make me a BH? Am I geared toward the wrong profession? Sure, it's not a requirement for me, but to think it's something difficult...well, hate to break it to you, it isn't. Especially NPCs.
I believe the BH are a balance between a tracker and a fighter, but not a master at both. While a Master Pistoleer, Master Rifleman, Master Caribenier ARE masters of their chosen weapon. Yet, any profession can be killedby anyone with a KD move and the suprise shot.
you're neglecting that we spend MORE THAN 2X the points as you...
We spend enough points to BE **MASTERS** AT BOTH.
you're telling me that Pistoleers can be the undisputed MASTERS of combat and ALSO be MASTERS of handling dangerous creatures...or MASTERS of medicine...
why can't a BH be MASTERS at killing and MASTERS at tracking for spendin the same # of points and SPENDING MUCH MORE TIME AT IT TOO (have you looked at the Investigation line? 200-250hours +)
I'd like to make a small point. Pistoleer = primarily Combat XP.
BH = Combat + Scouting
Pistoleer = All combat Class
BH = Combat/Scouting Class
BH can go up a tree or 2 in Pistoleer making it THE best combat class in the game to date.
Pistoleers get a melee knock down at lvl 1 Special Moves and Master Pistoleer get an AoE knock down.
BH get a Carbine Knockdown
NEWSFLASH, you can already solo ANYTHING in the game with knockdown :-/ Doesn't a Range Knockdown make you > then a Pistoleer already?
Iebo wrote:
I mean come on lets be honest here...
you're telling me that Pistoleers can be the undisputed MASTERS of combat and ALSO be MASTERS of handling dangerous creatures...or MASTERS of medicine...
why can't a BH be MASTERS at killing and MASTERS at tracking for spendin the same # of points and SPENDING MUCH MORE TIME AT IT TOO (have you looked at the Investigation line? 200-250hours +)
Sigh, but you fail to mention that your skill points diversify you, not specialize you. I can dabble in anything and spend an equal amount of points. All I need is one ranged KD, and the first shot, and I can kill any master profession. (CHs being harder, I may die, but hopefully get the DB before I do). What I suggest for your skill trees incombat is specializing in a weapon. Perhaps after scout and inviestigation, you guys could specialize in a SINGLE weapon, be it carbine, pistol, or LLC.
I feel ANY master weapon class should become a bounty hunter provided they go through all the needed points into the scouting/investgation tree. That way, you don't have cookie-cutter BHs. But no, the devs sought out to DIVERSIFY you guys with a multitude of weapons at your disposal.
Pistoleers, Carbine, and Riflemen should be undistputed MASTERS of their chosen weapon. Yes, theydo have enough points to master another profession. Yet, they are still specialized. Does THAT make them pwn all? No. The first ranged KD shot pwns all. It's the light and the dark. It binds the universe together and brings balance to the force.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but Masters of KILLING, I haven't seen that professionon my list here. Masters Killersgetthe KD, hit with it, and be the first to do it on 1v1.
Group combat is a totally different game, btw.
"NEWSFLASH, you can already solo ANYTHING in the game with knockdown :-/ Doesn't a Range Knockdown make you > then a Pistoleer already."
NEWSFLASH...you get a Ranged AOE Knockdown at Master Pistoleer. Doesn't a Range AoE Knockdown make you > then a BHer and two of his friends?
And yes Tomasi, my knockdown cost anywhere from 2 to 3 times more then your knockdown. My single target knockdown cost 2 to 3 times more then your AOE knockdown. And where yours seems to be about 99% effective mine works about 50% of the time.
Chahu Melhar
Intrepid Bounty Hunter
lol this is funny, I haven't read the whole thing but this is how I see it:
I'm a BH and I don't thinkwe should be as good as pistoleers w/ pistols, but we should still be damned good. and we are damned good w/ pistols, we've got pretty neat skills although bleeding shot kinda sucks and doesn't match up to a nice stacking of healthshot 1 and 2, but oh well. the problem w/ our class is that our carbines and lighting cannon suck. I think once they fix the range and accuracyon lightning cannon then things might be better there, also a couple more specials might be nice too. our carbine specials are awesome, however using all 3 of the attacks on 1 target would bring us **edit** near half health which is ridiculous, and thats what makes a lot of BH's angry. also our missions aren't exciting at all, just regular destroy missions except that it is 1 target w/ 10K HAM. a lot of timesthe missions earn us no money at all. the devs also took away our droid vendors, so now all the droids are expensive since DE's are making them. allthat, and the fact that we have had absolutely NO feedback from the devs. so a lot of us are verybitter right nowand lashing out at everyone,for that I apologize
hmm and you all wonder why the SW team does not respond very often?
Remember what your mother told you "If you do not have anything nice to say don't say anything at all"