Pistoleer Archive

Reading the boards I was thinking about this tonight, and trying to put a ranged persons slant on things, as I am a Bounty Hunter. Now I was going over some things and wondering, why in modern fights do people still go into close combat even if they have guns....And what exactly is star wars missing. The thing that came to me is, Ammunition.

In reality, all things being equal, there is no reason a Gun fighter would ever enter close combat, except for one, which would that he can no longer use his gun. Now themain reason guns stopshooting is simple, ammunition, somy proposition is this...

Ammo be placed into the game, in fact it could work like a power up, Ammo on a whole would enhance your weapon, but if you ran out you would have to reload.

Ammo could be made under the artisan, up through the weapon smith skill trees, the more skilled the smith, the more bonusesto the weaponammo gives (Such as damage/speed enhancments). Ammo would not be physical bullets, instead they would be cartidges of energy that the gun would use to make the actual blaster bolts....Like a battery.

Ammo usage would be weapon specific, or ammo could be in itself weapon specific....In other words.

A pistol may have clips of 25 bullets, While a carbineer may have clips of 50, and a rifle may have clips of 15. Or all clips could be made with 100 charges, and lets say a pistol uses 3 charges per shot, while a rifleman uses 2 ect ect. Depending on the system used, it would be balanced upon the type of weapon...Certain weapons may actually use ammo more effectivly then others (Refer to the HAM change at the bottom)

Now the big thing, how this could be made to help meelee.

Reloading your weapon would not be just point and click...Reloading should have a time on it depending on your weapon skill speed and the type of weapon being used. During this time the ranged person would move 50% slower then normal, this would illustrate his concentration on his weapon..

This would effect end a novice pistoleer from kiting around a master meelee forever....

However there are problems with this, namely the heal system as is would probably allow any meelee to live indefinetly (especially during the ranged down time), The heal system on a whole would have to be retuned. or at least tweaked, and sinceHolocron said they are doing that anyway, I assume this will work well with it.

Also HAM usage could be changed to be based off your current Ammo, while meelee's would retain the current HAM system. For me at least, this makes sense, special shots with your gun would draw more energy from your "Ammo energy clip". While a meelee would require more of his own bodies energy to do his specials.

Another problem is simply having multiple weapons loaded and ready to go, so you could switch rather then having to reload....A solution for this might be just make the reloading timer apply to weapon switches as well (Perhaps slightly less time, or only a 20% reduction in run speed during a switch rather then a 50%)...The timer would be shown much in the same way a crafting timer is shown, with a small set of numbers above the weapon that clicks down to 0...

Also...Pistoleers stopping shot could target a persons Ammo pool, depleating a gun of its ammunition, forcing the player to reload...

Any thoughts or Ideas? Or any loppholes any of you could see? Id like to post this on the disccussion board later on today, but I wanted opinions first.

Would be player triggered...Once your out an "out of ammo" message would come up...Other weapons could be pulled but you would suffer the same movment penalty for pulling them out as reloading.

So in other words, youd have to slow down to put the gun away, but in most cases that would not matter because your intent was to go into close combat anway .

Okay, let's say I don't reload my pistol. But I don't switch weapons either. I want to leave the weapon ammo-less and go for a good old fashion pistol whip spam. Why should I be slowed down?

Let's put the scenario this way.

Target 1 ............................. Me ................................ Target 2

My intention is to get to target 2 once I'm out of ammo. Why should being out of ammo make me slower to get to target 2 and more vulnerable to target 1 chasing me? I mean I'm not concentrating on reloading. I'm not putting my gun away. I'm trying to rush in and beat someone's brains in.

You would not be slower ...

Pistol whip would be left on the old weapon ham system, as it is a meelee atack, Since your not reloading your speed would not slow down...Reloading must be activated manualy, like swithcing weapons, if you do not do either, then no side effects would happen.

In other words, yes you could run up and use your gun like a meelee weapon and suffer no penalties for being out of ammo .

Ammo made by a Weaponsmith... I'd like a million crates please... since I get aggroed by every single thing one the game just running too my house from town. Yeah, I see the melee class having a chance, the Weaponsmiths getting richer(and annoying at having tons and tons and tons of people demanding ammo be turned out) and me going broke even faster....

Well in its most simple for the ammo would simply make your gun work...I see no reason even a novice artisan could not make a clip of it....

Also Ammo would be made like any other segment/power up...Producing a thousand clips should be very little strain on the Weponsmith/artisan...

You could even add the ability to craft generic ammo, per each class(without any stats) to each of the level 4 marksmen weapon trees...

I myself however would prefer Ammo with stats, like 20% Ham reduction ect, so in essence tho my gun would not be usless with self made ammo, it would be more effective with a weaponsmiths ammo .

Taewyn,

A very well thought out post. But sorry, as a pistoleer I don't like it. I don't think the game needs it either. It only adds one more complication and expense.

It just doesn't make sense. If you are TKA, then you shouldn't be fighting gunfighters in unarmed combat unless you can get in there and quickly dispatch them.

I am not an advocate of "absolute balance". Things should be unbalanced. Imbalance in one direction or another is what makes one profession appealing to one player and not another.

I'm reminded of a post on the Planet-Side board wherein a player complained that he couldn't shoot a Liberator bomber (aircraft) with his cycler (automatic rifle) when the Lib was at altitude (30k), even though the Lib could indeed drop bombs on his location. (See Physics 101)

I agree there should not be a balance VS meelee and Gun fighters . I full agree with the statement "do not bring a knife to a gun fight".

As an expert BH however I rarely use more then 8-9 shots to kill somone (I do not use eye shot in friendly duels)....I think this change would more effect the imbalance of somone kiting with a CDEF ...

I guess the main thing I like about this change is that it draws away a few things....

1.) No more ifinite loop of specials with a medic healing you, specials would be able to be revamped and perhaps made alotstronger knowing there is an upper limit to how many you can use.

One example would be something like stopping shot, being changed to a high damage KD with an 8 second KD timer....But you would have to think about using it because it would use up nearly 50% of a clip (just random numbers )...

2.) Ammo loot...Some ammo could have devastating effects, and only drop off high level mobs, these clips might have only 3-4 shots each .

The biggest thing I imagine though is being in a huge battle, and waves after waves fighting, eventually just you and your group are pinned down, having to conserve ammo to try and hold out until freinds arrive...(I know call me a dreamer ;p)

For me it adds a bit more depth to the ranged world, Guns really should not tax their owner, they should tax themselves....Having a finite amount of power should allow more varitions in the specials, without overpowering them .

I agree there are problems with this...This might not be the best idea, or even a good one , wanted to give it a whirl tho, thanks for all the input so far, more is welcome .

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cue-ball wrote:
now why would blasters that shoot energy and acid have ammo/ i believe they should have batteries or acid containers which the basically do (weapon degreneration).

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He used "ammo" as a generic term.

Pesonally it's a very well thought out idea, but as far a online game go I don't think it would work. As I don't agree with Holo with his comments on why Commando weapons do so much damage base on them having charges. Don't base balance of things on money, it never works and never will work. If I need to pay 50,000 credits or more to kill you in one shot I will, that's not a balancing plan.

"Ammo" works the same way, if you introduce special ammo that makes weapons better, you just add MORE of a problem to melee classes than help them.

It's really a simple fix, and I can't beleive SOE hasn't put it in, it's in Planetside. If you are moving and shooting a weapon your speed SHOULD be REDUCED. (Planetside is if it's equiped, but anyway) That solves all kiting problems, it's very simple. The reduction doesn't have to be huge like 50% maybe 10 -20% range.

Make shooting while runnning slow the shooter down. You can't run and hit your target effectivly if running fast. make it a little faster than ajog.

Z

The ammo in itself would not make one shot kills ...I think the crux of it would to put a limit on the amount of times you can shoot, rather then having ifinite shots...For me it adds strategy, rather then just the endless loop of special/stim packs .

I agree tho on an online game it might pose more problems then its worth...