Pistoleer Archive
Thread: SUGGESTIONS FOR ADDITIONAL CERTS, AND AN OFFICIAL HISTORY THAT EXPLAINS WHY THE DX-2 BLOWS.
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WinterRoseASFR
Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:27 am
#1
Well, this post started out as a reply to the 9-8-03 Rough Draft posting. Then it turned into something entirely else while I had a look in my books for info on the 'Republic Blaster'. I'll post this in several parts to make it a bit easier to read. Jaegen, seeing postings like yours, seeing how well you represent the best interests of the community keeps me from giving up on the pistoleer profession. You have my gratitude and encouragement as our rep. Even if SOE may or may not be really LISTENING, with reports like yours, I can hope that my guns will eventually be filled with the thunder appropriate to em. (Can we tell I'm watching the Fistfull of Dollars movies and The Outlaw Josey Wales as I type this?)
Giving some thought to the matter, it has been mentioned that they were going to add weapons to the game. Now I don't want you to change a thing about your report. It's concise and well written with an aim toward fixing the problems we have instead of ignoring them for the development of things we may not see until next year. Perhaps issue 4 could be something more like where are the worthwhile weapons for the Elite Pistoleer Combat Class. The Bounty Hunters Have two. The Commandos have four. We have one broken one. And it certainly allows for no variety in combat styles. This could include a wish list for weapons we could USE.
(Continued)
Giving some thought to the matter, it has been mentioned that they were going to add weapons to the game. Now I don't want you to change a thing about your report. It's concise and well written with an aim toward fixing the problems we have instead of ignoring them for the development of things we may not see until next year. Perhaps issue 4 could be something more like where are the worthwhile weapons for the Elite Pistoleer Combat Class. The Bounty Hunters Have two. The Commandos have four. We have one broken one. And it certainly allows for no variety in combat styles. This could include a wish list for weapons we could USE.
(Continued)
WinterRoseASFR
Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:28 am
#2
THE BRYAR PISTOL (Source: Dark Forces, Jedi Knight, Jedi Outcast)
If new weapons and weapon certs are to be added later in the game, a really good and (as described by Lucasarts on their Jedi Outcast Page) 'incredibly accurate' energy pistol might be the Bryar Pistol. (The Starting Pistol and one of the best weapons in the first three Jedi Knight games, as wielded by Kyle Kataarn.) The weapon is described by fan pages that likely took their information from manuals and the like, as a cutoff rifle that was modified by Kyle. It is more accurate then the stormtrooper rifle, but has a slower firing rate. Of course with this slower firing rate, the bryar pistol uses less ammunition then the stormtrooper rifle.
At long ranges and with charging up shots, this gun was a darn fine weapon. If they're going to add new guns, I certainly wouldn't mind seeing the good ol Bryar Pistol put in an appearance. That'd be a heck of an energy weapon for us. Pages where you might learn more about the Bryar Pistol would be:
http://users.pandora.be/bert.dujardin/Bryar_MkI.htm
http://www.jediknight.net/trail/weapons.html
http://www.lucasarts.com/products/outcast/html/weapons_index.html
http://www.swrpgnetwork.com/entry.php?s=b76f00f27751482c765d84a47568cf06&id=1516
http://www.episodeoneshipset.freeserve.co.uk/indexmotswea.htm
If new weapons and weapon certs are to be added later in the game, a really good and (as described by Lucasarts on their Jedi Outcast Page) 'incredibly accurate' energy pistol might be the Bryar Pistol. (The Starting Pistol and one of the best weapons in the first three Jedi Knight games, as wielded by Kyle Kataarn.) The weapon is described by fan pages that likely took their information from manuals and the like, as a cutoff rifle that was modified by Kyle. It is more accurate then the stormtrooper rifle, but has a slower firing rate. Of course with this slower firing rate, the bryar pistol uses less ammunition then the stormtrooper rifle.
At long ranges and with charging up shots, this gun was a darn fine weapon. If they're going to add new guns, I certainly wouldn't mind seeing the good ol Bryar Pistol put in an appearance. That'd be a heck of an energy weapon for us. Pages where you might learn more about the Bryar Pistol would be:
http://users.pandora.be/bert.dujardin/Bryar_MkI.htm
http://www.jediknight.net/trail/weapons.html
http://www.lucasarts.com/products/outcast/html/weapons_index.html
http://www.swrpgnetwork.com/entry.php?s=b76f00f27751482c765d84a47568cf06&id=1516
http://www.episodeoneshipset.freeserve.co.uk/indexmotswea.htm
WinterRoseASFR
Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:32 am
#3
THE TENLOSS DX-2 'DISRUPTOR' PISTOL, & WHAT THE HECK IS A 'REPUBLIC BLASTER ANYWAY?
I'm actually pretty confused as to what the Republic Blaster might be. Hitting my reference books, the BlasTech DH17 is indeed a pistol, as is seen in Marksman 2's certification. But it's shown to look like the CDEF Carbine we all saw in the hands of alliance troops on Tantive IV as they prepared to get boarded by Vader's troops. (ref: SW Essential Guide to Weapons & Technology, Pg 4)
Oddly enough, The DX-2 is also listed in the Essential Weapons & Tech guide (Pg 24). However there's no 'acid' effect listed here. The Tenloss DX-2 is listed as a disruptor pistol. There's also the Tenloss DXR-6 Disruptor Rifle on the same page. They're listed as blacklisted and reviled weapons because they were really REALLY powerful. These weapons drain their power packs very quickly. But the force they put out justifies the power involved. Quoted here:
"Among the most controversial and reviled hand weapons in the galaxy, disruptors are energy weapons whose blasts are so powerful that they break down objects at the molecular level, leaving only a smoking pile of ash.
These small handheld pistols can disintegrate a 1x1 meter durasteel plate up to a half meter thick, or penetrate force-fields, personal battle armour, and vehicle and starship hull plating. Against living targets, these weapons almost always cause instantaneous death, and even a glancing blast causes horribly painful injuries that must be treated immediately in order to prevent irreparable nerve damage.
Most disruptors utilize brute force rather than technological innovations to produce their lethal blasts. The oversized XCiter and the actuating blaster module produce a much higher volume of blaster gas, while the barrel's series of galven cylinders tightly focusses the beam, concentrating the blast's high energy particles. However, because of the crude design, disruptors tend to have short ranges and a limited ammunition capacity: The DX-2 has an optimum range of 5 meters, and a maximum range of 7 meters and drains a standard power pack after just 5 shots...
...While disruptors are militarily impractical because of their limited range and ammunition, many assassins, slavers, and BOUNTY HUNTERS enjoy the notoriety and infamy that comes with toting these weapons...
...Disruptors are banned on most New Republic Worlds. On some planets, mere possession is grounds for the death penalty. Even under the Empire only a very small number of imperial officials -Imperial Security Bureau Investigators and Inquisitors - were allowed to carry these inhumane weapons. During the rule of the empire, some companies were authorized to produce these weapons in limited quantities, although most ceased production under New Republic Law.
However, the Tenloss Syndicate and many other criminal organizations maintain back alley labs to build disruptors, and reap tremendous profits from black Market Sales"
From the description here, it looks like SOE sort of tried to remain faithful to the descriptions given here. The DX-2's origin appears to be from the Han Solo at Star's End books. The point blank range for the DX-2 we find so wanting may have been an attempt to accurately reflect the weapon. However, the tremendous damage the gun does appears to have been left out, instead replacing the devastating disruption effect with an 'acid' effect. It does indeed have the capacity, story-wise to be a really nasty up close and personal weapon. Coupled with a properly operating stopping shot, this gun could be lethal. With its armour piercing capabilities, this weapon could mean all the difference in a confrontation with imperial troops, or backshooting an AT-ST while your mates distract it from the front.
It does bear some superficial resemblance in the book to what was produced model-wise in the game. Though it looks as though in the interests of time, they didn't make the effort to model the grip of the gun, opting instead to use the modelling and bitmapping from other carbines in the game.
NOT shown in the book is the Merr-Sonn MSD-32 Pistol, which is said to have circumvented a lot of the DX-2's limitations. Perhaps if we were to get a really powerful and properly working disruptor pistol, we might want to ask for the Merr-Sonn MSD-32. The listing for the MSD-32 can be found in a Galladinium's Star Wars RPG Weapon supplement from West End Games that I'll get into in just a little, along with a picture.
(Continued)
I'm actually pretty confused as to what the Republic Blaster might be. Hitting my reference books, the BlasTech DH17 is indeed a pistol, as is seen in Marksman 2's certification. But it's shown to look like the CDEF Carbine we all saw in the hands of alliance troops on Tantive IV as they prepared to get boarded by Vader's troops. (ref: SW Essential Guide to Weapons & Technology, Pg 4)
Oddly enough, The DX-2 is also listed in the Essential Weapons & Tech guide (Pg 24). However there's no 'acid' effect listed here. The Tenloss DX-2 is listed as a disruptor pistol. There's also the Tenloss DXR-6 Disruptor Rifle on the same page. They're listed as blacklisted and reviled weapons because they were really REALLY powerful. These weapons drain their power packs very quickly. But the force they put out justifies the power involved. Quoted here:
"Among the most controversial and reviled hand weapons in the galaxy, disruptors are energy weapons whose blasts are so powerful that they break down objects at the molecular level, leaving only a smoking pile of ash.
These small handheld pistols can disintegrate a 1x1 meter durasteel plate up to a half meter thick, or penetrate force-fields, personal battle armour, and vehicle and starship hull plating. Against living targets, these weapons almost always cause instantaneous death, and even a glancing blast causes horribly painful injuries that must be treated immediately in order to prevent irreparable nerve damage.
Most disruptors utilize brute force rather than technological innovations to produce their lethal blasts. The oversized XCiter and the actuating blaster module produce a much higher volume of blaster gas, while the barrel's series of galven cylinders tightly focusses the beam, concentrating the blast's high energy particles. However, because of the crude design, disruptors tend to have short ranges and a limited ammunition capacity: The DX-2 has an optimum range of 5 meters, and a maximum range of 7 meters and drains a standard power pack after just 5 shots...
...While disruptors are militarily impractical because of their limited range and ammunition, many assassins, slavers, and BOUNTY HUNTERS enjoy the notoriety and infamy that comes with toting these weapons...
...Disruptors are banned on most New Republic Worlds. On some planets, mere possession is grounds for the death penalty. Even under the Empire only a very small number of imperial officials -Imperial Security Bureau Investigators and Inquisitors - were allowed to carry these inhumane weapons. During the rule of the empire, some companies were authorized to produce these weapons in limited quantities, although most ceased production under New Republic Law.
However, the Tenloss Syndicate and many other criminal organizations maintain back alley labs to build disruptors, and reap tremendous profits from black Market Sales"
From the description here, it looks like SOE sort of tried to remain faithful to the descriptions given here. The DX-2's origin appears to be from the Han Solo at Star's End books. The point blank range for the DX-2 we find so wanting may have been an attempt to accurately reflect the weapon. However, the tremendous damage the gun does appears to have been left out, instead replacing the devastating disruption effect with an 'acid' effect. It does indeed have the capacity, story-wise to be a really nasty up close and personal weapon. Coupled with a properly operating stopping shot, this gun could be lethal. With its armour piercing capabilities, this weapon could mean all the difference in a confrontation with imperial troops, or backshooting an AT-ST while your mates distract it from the front.
It does bear some superficial resemblance in the book to what was produced model-wise in the game. Though it looks as though in the interests of time, they didn't make the effort to model the grip of the gun, opting instead to use the modelling and bitmapping from other carbines in the game.
NOT shown in the book is the Merr-Sonn MSD-32 Pistol, which is said to have circumvented a lot of the DX-2's limitations. Perhaps if we were to get a really powerful and properly working disruptor pistol, we might want to ask for the Merr-Sonn MSD-32. The listing for the MSD-32 can be found in a Galladinium's Star Wars RPG Weapon supplement from West End Games that I'll get into in just a little, along with a picture.
(Continued)
WinterRoseASFR
Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:34 am
#4
SONIC PISTOLS & THE REAL ORIGIN OF THE MALAXAN FIREPOWER INC. FWG-5
On the next page, we're given an example of a Sonic Pistol. The Pacnorval Defense Systems Ltd, Sd-77 Sonic Pistol is given as the example. But sonic pistols are described thus:
"Sonic weapons generate a wide-dispersal cone of high intensity sound... They offer both blast and stun settings. The first setting produces a high intensity sonic blast comparable to a blaster bolt; at this level, the sonic cone's vibrations are powerful enough to shatter solid objects and cause devastating injuries.
The stun setting releases a high pitched wail that disrupts equilibrium, causing a loss of balance and unconsciousness in the target. The stun frequency must be recalibrated for each different species, but most sonic weapons can store several different settings or be adjusted with manual controls. A new generation of advanced sonics, including the Pacnorval SIL-50 (Not Pictured) "sleep Inducer" employ hypersonic wave energy (Matching frequencies within the target's nervous system) to disorient and disable, sometimes taking effect in as little as 2 seconds."
It would seem to me that this would be a perfect mind bar affecting stun pistol for pistoleers to gain. They're listed as having limited ranges, from the optimum of 15 up to 35 meters. However the wide dispersal setting would place it squarely as a support weapon or hold out weapon when used against multiple targets. When used with a properly working Multi-Target Pistol Shot, this pistol could be a mad incapacitator.
The Pacnorval SIL-50 'Sleep Inducer while not shown in the Weapons and technology guide, IS shown in the West End Games Star Wars supplement, 'Galladinium's Fantastic Technology: Guns & Gear For Any Occasion'. (Page 76) Interestingly enough, in Galladinium's, I also find the listing for the FWG-5. And again, the intent of the weapon has been twisted, as with the energy to acid conversion done on the DX-2. In the case of the FWG-5, this weapon was originally a flechette smart-pistol. Since the Bounty Hunters already have the scatter pistol, I guess that's why the FWG was converted to a heat based weapon. (Page 72)
(Continued)
On the next page, we're given an example of a Sonic Pistol. The Pacnorval Defense Systems Ltd, Sd-77 Sonic Pistol is given as the example. But sonic pistols are described thus:
"Sonic weapons generate a wide-dispersal cone of high intensity sound... They offer both blast and stun settings. The first setting produces a high intensity sonic blast comparable to a blaster bolt; at this level, the sonic cone's vibrations are powerful enough to shatter solid objects and cause devastating injuries.
The stun setting releases a high pitched wail that disrupts equilibrium, causing a loss of balance and unconsciousness in the target. The stun frequency must be recalibrated for each different species, but most sonic weapons can store several different settings or be adjusted with manual controls. A new generation of advanced sonics, including the Pacnorval SIL-50 (Not Pictured) "sleep Inducer" employ hypersonic wave energy (Matching frequencies within the target's nervous system) to disorient and disable, sometimes taking effect in as little as 2 seconds."
It would seem to me that this would be a perfect mind bar affecting stun pistol for pistoleers to gain. They're listed as having limited ranges, from the optimum of 15 up to 35 meters. However the wide dispersal setting would place it squarely as a support weapon or hold out weapon when used against multiple targets. When used with a properly working Multi-Target Pistol Shot, this pistol could be a mad incapacitator.
The Pacnorval SIL-50 'Sleep Inducer while not shown in the Weapons and technology guide, IS shown in the West End Games Star Wars supplement, 'Galladinium's Fantastic Technology: Guns & Gear For Any Occasion'. (Page 76) Interestingly enough, in Galladinium's, I also find the listing for the FWG-5. And again, the intent of the weapon has been twisted, as with the energy to acid conversion done on the DX-2. In the case of the FWG-5, this weapon was originally a flechette smart-pistol. Since the Bounty Hunters already have the scatter pistol, I guess that's why the FWG was converted to a heat based weapon. (Page 72)
(Continued)
WinterRoseASFR
Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:36 am
#5
THE MERR-SONN MUNITIONS IR-5 'INTIMIDATOR', or... RAPID FIRE!
Also listed in Galladinium's (Page 71) is the Merr-Sonn Munitions IR-5 'Intimidator'. It's described this way...
"You'd be intimidated too if one of these were pointed in your direction. A departure from traditional blaster designs, the IR-5 sacrifices overall stopping power for rapid fire. Using a specially designed actuating blaster module and blast containment and recoil suppression elements, the IR-5 is capable of both full and semi-automatic firing."
This weapon in the old West End Games iteration of the dice and paper RPG enjoyed a fire control bonus that applied to multiple shots on different targets in a 90 degree arc of fire. A retractable stock and recoil supporession elements gave it a steadier and more accurate shot. This weapon when paired with Multi-Target Shot, Fan Shot, or Double Tap might make a steady and accurate 'machine-pistol' blaster.
(Continued)
Also listed in Galladinium's (Page 71) is the Merr-Sonn Munitions IR-5 'Intimidator'. It's described this way...
"You'd be intimidated too if one of these were pointed in your direction. A departure from traditional blaster designs, the IR-5 sacrifices overall stopping power for rapid fire. Using a specially designed actuating blaster module and blast containment and recoil suppression elements, the IR-5 is capable of both full and semi-automatic firing."
This weapon in the old West End Games iteration of the dice and paper RPG enjoyed a fire control bonus that applied to multiple shots on different targets in a 90 degree arc of fire. A retractable stock and recoil supporession elements gave it a steadier and more accurate shot. This weapon when paired with Multi-Target Shot, Fan Shot, or Double Tap might make a steady and accurate 'machine-pistol' blaster.
(Continued)
WinterRoseASFR
Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:38 am
#6
THE KELVAREK CONSOLIDATED ARMS KD-30 'DISSUADER', or DO YOU SUFFER FROM ACID UPSET?
On page 74 of Galladinium's, we also may have the answer to the loss of an Acid weapon if the DX 2 was corrected and made into a REALLY dangerous disruptor as it was intended. The Kelvarek Consolidated Arms 'Dissuader' KD-30 is described in the book this way"
"Another non-energy weapon, but this one packs a particularly nasty bite to it. The Kelvarek Dissuader forgoes the use of traditional solid rounds in favor of metal jacketed cartridges filled with borless acid. The recipient not only takes damage from the shot, but the acid's effects continue to dissuade the would-be attacker from further interest in you and yours. A built in laser guided sighting mechanism makes this a small but very respectable piece of hardware to have in a bad situation."
Stat-wise this pistol enjoyed a plus to it's accuracy from the laser sighting system, and inflicted an ongoing acid wound for three 'rounds', which might translate in this game as acid damage inflicted over an amount of time like with a poison wound from a mob.
(To Be Concluded)
On page 74 of Galladinium's, we also may have the answer to the loss of an Acid weapon if the DX 2 was corrected and made into a REALLY dangerous disruptor as it was intended. The Kelvarek Consolidated Arms 'Dissuader' KD-30 is described in the book this way"
"Another non-energy weapon, but this one packs a particularly nasty bite to it. The Kelvarek Dissuader forgoes the use of traditional solid rounds in favor of metal jacketed cartridges filled with borless acid. The recipient not only takes damage from the shot, but the acid's effects continue to dissuade the would-be attacker from further interest in you and yours. A built in laser guided sighting mechanism makes this a small but very respectable piece of hardware to have in a bad situation."
Stat-wise this pistol enjoyed a plus to it's accuracy from the laser sighting system, and inflicted an ongoing acid wound for three 'rounds', which might translate in this game as acid damage inflicted over an amount of time like with a poison wound from a mob.
(To Be Concluded)
WinterRoseASFR
Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:39 am
#7
There's lots of other weapons that COULD be gone into here. Since we do have Naboo in the game, the Naboo S-5 security blaster could be added. (Based on a Steyr-Mannlicher .22 cal competition model.) And that doesn't get into Jango's blasters.
I hope I've helped folks out here by providing a bit of history and backstory for the lesser known weapons we DO have, descriptions of weapons that might be welcome additions to the Pistoleer line of Certs. And suggestions as to how some existing ones might be fixed with the addition of weapons from sources clearly used by the developers for pistol weaponry. As always, walk easy, shoot straight, and luck in your steps.
Kid: "Why're you doin' this then!?"
Josey: "I got nothin' better to do."
-The Outlaw Josey Wales
-Rookery DeCarabas, Enthralling Gunslinger
The Zeltron Zabrak, Corellia, Eclipse
For the full image of Rookery DeCarabas holding a DL-44 and a Bryar Pistol see:
http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=479118&Start=1&Artist=WinterRose&ByArtist=Yes
I hope I've helped folks out here by providing a bit of history and backstory for the lesser known weapons we DO have, descriptions of weapons that might be welcome additions to the Pistoleer line of Certs. And suggestions as to how some existing ones might be fixed with the addition of weapons from sources clearly used by the developers for pistol weaponry. As always, walk easy, shoot straight, and luck in your steps.
Kid: "Why're you doin' this then!?"
Josey: "I got nothin' better to do."
-The Outlaw Josey Wales
-Rookery DeCarabas, Enthralling Gunslinger
The Zeltron Zabrak, Corellia, Eclipse
For the full image of Rookery DeCarabas holding a DL-44 and a Bryar Pistol see:
http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=479118&Start=1&Artist=WinterRose&ByArtist=Yes
WesBelden
Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:52 am
#8
I'd love to see the Bryar pistol in the game, being an avid fan of the DF/JK series. However, I'm not sure people (none pistoleers) would be too pleased if they encorperated the charge up long range sniper shot you get with it. Admitedly, you've got to be skilled to use it at range (picking off Storm Troopers' heads from 100 yards away is always fun 
), but I don't see the riflemen being too keen on the idea. Then again they'vegot the speed that's supposed to be our little charming advantage, so don't see how they can moan about us getting just onedecent long ranged shotatmaster (well.. yes I can see how, I'm just biased).
), but I don't see the riflemen being too keen on the idea. Then again they'vegot the speed that's supposed to be our little charming advantage, so don't see how they can moan about us getting just onedecent long ranged shotatmaster (well.. yes I can see how, I'm just biased).
Trayson_Antilles
Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:54 am
#9
Very nice posts overall but one thing irks me: Your subject line. All caps is bad. Just say no to All Caps subject lines 
CeptoKast
Thu Sep 11, 2003 8:23 pm
#12
mmm, I'd take my DX2 over any other pistol I can find on Eclipse, including my scatter, anyday of the week.
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